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pauljluk

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guelph4ever

There are 1.3 MILLION babies aborted every year in America alone.

Actually, the figure is probably more like 5.3 million, but most are natural abortions (something like 50% of conceptions abort naturally). Or to put it another way, if you believe in such things, God murders something like 4 million innocent American baby souls every year.


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terminate un born featuses 

I just love phrases like that; because it just sounds so much nicer than "killing the baby".

It may or may not be nicer, but it is more accurate. A baby, by definition, is a born human being. It is an abuse and distortion of both language and biology to label unborn foetuses as babies.

WhiteCockade

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Reply with quote  #17 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljluk

God murders something like 4 million innocent American baby souls every year.

 

This is perhaps the singularly most absurd argument for infanticide I have heard to date. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljluk
   A baby, by definition, is a born human being.

 

That the medical community has a classification system using the terms embryo, zygote, fetus etc. does not change reality that the unborn are human persons.   Anything beyond this is simply semantics.   


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Reply with quote  #18 

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Actually, the figure is probably more like 5.3 million, but most are natural abortions (something like 50% of conceptions abort naturally). Or to put it another way, if you believe in such things, God murders something like 4 million innocent American baby souls every year.

 

Okay, just so I understand . . . . you think that since people die from natural causes it must mean that murder is okay?  Abortion is not a big deal to you because some pregnancies fail? So the fact that someone accidentally gets hit by a car while crossing the street means it should be okay to run someone down on purpose with my pickup?

I'm not sure if you're actually as heartless as you sound of if you just got hit with the dumb stick.


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A baby, by definition, is a born human being. It is an abuse and distortion of both language and biology to label unborn foetuses as babies.

I see, so you simply believe in age descrimination then. So, by your standards of judgement, oh deified one, how "born" does one have to be when it is still okay to murder said fetus/human? What about partial-birth abortion? If the "fetus" head is all that's emerged, is it okay with you to suction its brain out then? What if half the body is out? What if the little "fetus" only has one leg still in . . .. can we still execute?

 

Words like "fetus" being used by abortionists instead of babies is absolutely no different than any of the other mass murderers of history. The Nazis did the same thing: de-humanize the enemy. They're not real people after all, just Jews. They're not babies, they're just a blob of cells called a fetus, kill it and throw it in the trash.

 

...........yeah, heartless is starting to gain the lead here

dutchy

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Reply with quote  #19 

oh ok and i suppose the use of contraception is murder to sperm and egg cells eh. if you classify terminating a fetus murder then i suppose you view safe sex as an act of murder to something that could potentially be a baby!

Think about it, only one of each cell lives, thats one potential baby, yet the others die, and there is nothing that can be done to save them. If god truly exists then why did he create such a "murderous" reproductive system? 


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WhiteCockade

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Reply with quote  #20 

It is not murder, because there is no human person until fertilization at which point a unique and immortal human soul is created by God for the embryonic human.  That said, contraception is a mortal sin since it prevents, or least attempts to prevent, the primary end of the marriage act which is procreation.  Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being by another human being.  The natural process of dieing is not murder, and that I would have to explain this tells a lot.  God as the author of life, can give and take away when He sees fit. 


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MonarchistPilot1986

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljluk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guelph4ever

There are 1.3 MILLION babies aborted every year in America alone.

Actually, the figure is probably more like 5.3 million, but most are natural abortions (something like 50% of conceptions abort naturally). Or to put it another way, if you believe in such things, God murders something like 4 million innocent American baby souls every year.


Quote:
Quote:
terminate un born featuses 

I just love phrases like that; because it just sounds so much nicer than "killing the baby".

It may or may not be nicer, but it is more accurate. A baby, by definition, is a born human being. It is an abuse and distortion of both language and biology to label unborn foetuses as babies.

 

So, tell me why did Scott Peterson get charged with the murder of his wife AND HER UBORN CHILD? THis in the same state that allows abortion. The law should be based in Reason, yet look at this case and you see that the law if based in personal politics. The law of the land follows Reason, as do morals. The laws of the land should follow some moral code?

 

If the laws did not follow moral code, then we might as well legalize murder of adults. We might as well legalise theft. We might as well legalize rape. We can't go by morals! That my offend someone with a different moral opinion. They might think it is their right to steal! Their right to rape!


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dutchy

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCockade

It is not murder, because there is no human person until fertilization at which point a unique and immortal human soul is created by God for the embryonic human.  

Of course there is personality in them! do Genes mean anything to you! We get our personality from our parents  hereditarily not by a soul magicaly created by some invisible being! Personality has evolved over millions of years just like every other aspect of life, it wasnt just placed here by some old man.

 

Religion was used in the past to answer questions that couldn't be answered back then. Today it serves no other purpose other than to be used for unjust causes like holy war or jihad. All religion is all the same, corrupt and a thorn in the side of progress and world peace!


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Reply with quote  #23 

Oh yes! That's why atheists like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Ho Chi Minh were all such good, peace-loving fellows. Meanwhile all the schools, colleges, orphanages, hospitals, soup kitchens, pregnancy centers, battered women shelters, homeless shelters and medical programs run by the Catholic Church count for nothing -I guess all these people are not as smart as you to see that they are actually an enemy to world peace!

 

Religion is not just about explaining what we don't understand. People have understood how babies were made since year one, but rather it tells about what more there is to this life and why we can't (or shouldn't at least) drag all of civilization down the tubes just to feed our own hedonistic impulses. Things always get worse without good religion, as the examples above demonstrate. Even societies that claim to be moral, such as ours, without religion always seem to start allowing horrible atrocities to be committed like, oh, say, maybe butchering millions of babies

dutchy

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Reply with quote  #24 

Wrong it wasnt the absence of religion in those governments, it was the fact that most of your examples were of communists which evryone knows is a stupid type of government. And actualy Hitler tried to create his own religion so you cant say that he was an athiest as he was the leader of the nazi church, which did believe in god. So in actual fact it is you who is wrong.

 

It is not athiests that are the drain on society, it is evil political ideaologies like that and people like you^^^.


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royalcello

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchy

people like you



Hey!  No personal attacks.
BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #26 
Communism may be a stupid form of government, but that doesn't exclude them from being Godless.  Stalin was an atheist, and proof that people don't need the cover of God or Religion to be cold-hearted, murderous, or controlling.

As to the Sperm and Egg issue,  laying aside the 'Soul' issue.  Neither the egg nor sperm has the DNA structure needed to produce a human being.  They've only got half the stuff needed. 

The fertilized egg (sperm-egg union) does have all the genetic material needed.

Before fertilization you don't have a 'person' even in miniature.  No matter how carefully tended, neither sperm nor egg will ever 'grow up'.

From fertilization onwards, you have a person in a single cell, capable under normal conditions of growing into a functioning member of society.

Even if no 'Soul' attaches to the unborn person, the unique nature of an individual human is established at conception. 

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dutchy

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Reply with quote  #27 
Thanks for that, id almost forgot that fact. And you did it from such a neutral point of view, i comend you for it!
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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchy

Wrong it wasnt the absence of religion in those governments, it was the fact that most of your examples were of communists which evryone knows is a stupid type of government. And actualy Hitler tried to create his own religion so you cant say that he was an athiest as he was the leader of the nazi church, which did believe in god. So in actual fact it is you who is wrong.

 

It is not athiests that are the drain on society, it is evil political ideaologies like that and people like you^^^.

Stalin and Mao were not killing poor Russian Orthodox Christians because they were "class enemies" -but because they were Christian. Same thing for China. In North Korea it is still illegal to even mention the name of God -why? Because they are atheistic regimes. And that Hitler's religion crap won't wash with me, there never was an official nazi church of any type, just a general trend toward various forms of paganism. They were specifically anti-Christian because the Nazis viewed the worship of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as "too Jewish" for their taste. They was no "god" in the Nazi state, just vague references to a higher power that any secular state makes. You are wrong until you can show me one official Nazi German document endorsing an official Nazi state religion.

 

And yes, Communism is a stupid form of government, and their staunch atheism is one of the biggest reasons why.

dutchy

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Reply with quote  #29 

You are wrong until you can show me one official Nazi German document endorsing an official Nazi state religion.

Unfortunately, again thanks to those communist idiots, most records were destroyed.

 

And I think you'll find the atheism of communism is not its main reason for its stupdity, it is the whole idea that everyone is of the same wealth and all buissness is controlled by the state not independently like Capitalist states. Capitalists and Monarchists were the enemy of communism not religion. Although it is true that they killed thousands of not only christians but jews also, they killed firstly enemies of communism indescriminate of their spiritual beliefs.

 

I am the single greatest enemy of the communist ideal and i know my enemy! Maybe you should too.


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mdmroyale

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Reply with quote  #30 

I pray every night for those unborn BABIES and I wish women would realize that their hurting themselves.


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