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Olligarchy

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Hello everyone, my name is Olli and I am a Finnish monarchist.

Yeah, you heard me. Finnish. Monarchist. I'm sure that whilst I'm not unique it's a rare enough condition to have, but it is with this recently acquired understanding of my self that I am looking signing up on these forums with.

Some background on myself... I was born in Finland, raised mostly abroad and have always been an avid researcher of history, particularly European history. For the most part of my life I did not really care a whit for what form of government my country was ruled with (as I did not live there for the most part) and only thought of the monarchies still in existence as quirky and a bit backwards. Of course this was all before I really knew anything about anything.

What changed my perception about monarchy was the discovery that my family is actually directly traced to Birger Jarl via his son Eric. Whilst to claim we'd have some claim on the old Folkung holdings would be preposterous, it was interesting enough to drive me to continue our family tree research and study all these people like Sophia of Minsk for instance, that I am related to. These studies further brought me into contact with the intricacies of different monarchies and the histories of all the great states of Europe and by extension... the world.

It is with these feelings that I sign up on the royalcello in hopes of finding like minded Finns and peoples of other nations. I am especially looking for a monarchist society here in my homeland ,if such exists, or if not... consider forming one to drive the agenda here forwards.

I look forward to your replies, and generally talking to you!

Olli
Tolgron

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Hey Olligarchy, welcome aboard!

Finland is an interesting case for monarchists, because it did actually become a Kingdom for a year or so yet otherwise has little royal history of its own, being caught as it was in a large tug-of-war between Sweden and Russia. The lack of distinct royal history means that there isn't anything to really ground Finns to a monarchist identity, much as America or San Marino doesn't really have a royal history, and this, I think, hampers efforts to create a monarchist movement within the country. There's nothing really to reclaim, as there is with France, Russia or Portugal. Unless you wanted to invite a member of the Swedish royal family to take up a new royal tradition.
Ponocrates

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Greetings! You may find this of interest.

http://madmonarchist.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-attempted-kingdom-of-finland.html

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Ethiomonarchist

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Welcome Olligarchy.
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Queenslander

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From one end to the planet to the other I welcome thee to the fraternity of Monarchy, and all the best wishes for you during your stay here thus extend.
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Olligarchy

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Hello everyone, thanks for making me feel all nice and welcome!

As for Finland Tolgron... I am fully aware of the history of this country, but I do feel that 800 some years have given us a very particular outlook that is very similar to some of the monarchist countries in Europe. Our continued ties with the Scandinavian countries whom are all monarchies only serve to fuel that. Our history however has always left the people with a sour taste in the mouth as even during our time as an autonomous Grand Principality, the Czar was still the ruler of Russia first. Then all the Kingdoms he held, and THEN Finland. Of course most of my reasoning for a Finnish monarchy is as follows:

Right now our government is gutting the position of the president, our supposed head of state to a purely figure head position of supposed prestige. However I (and many of the people I know) feel that if we want a figure head that we can dress in pretty clothes, isn't it better to have a monarch whom will reign longer than 4 years or so, and whom will increase our ties with the country of his/her origin? Nobody really cares who Sauli Niinnistö, the President of Finland is. Quite a few more might care if XXX was the King of Finland and Karelia, Duke of Åland, Grand Duke of Lappland, Lord of Kaleva and the North. If it's pure prestige we're looking for, it's far better just to place the fairly epic crown of Finland on someones head and go with it.

As for the Bernadottes... personally I would not invite them. Even barring my personal feelings of a dynasty that was forcibly placed on the throne held by Vasas and Wittelbachs, I feel that having a younger sibling of the future Queen of Sweden being the King or Queen of Finland would only fuel this country's already formidable feelings of "lack of entitlement" as we'd still sort of be second fiddle to the Swedes. By far the better opinion is to crown Phillip von Hessen as King. If not him, possibly someone from the Danish royal family, or even a Romanov. Crowning a Glücksburg would serve to tie us closer with Denmark and Norway which is always a good thing. Crowning a Romanov would simply be closing the circle and giving a great dynasty that got bad press in the end another chance of ruling in the North.

I think I'll stop rambling now! Please do tell me what you think of my rather incoherent post.

 

Peter

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Reply with quote  #7 
Welcome to the forum, and I hope you will be contributing regularly. On the Bernadottes, I would not say they were forcibly installed in Sweden. A successor to the childless Carl XIII was needed, and Marshal Bernadotte was the free choice of the Swedes and lawfully elected as Crown Prince, subsequently succeeding. Though he had no genealogical connection with the previous (Holstein-Gottorp) dynasty, that was not required for the election to be valid. They themselves had only a slight connection with their Wittelsbach predecessors, and no actual descent from them. The roll of titles is splendid, but I suggest Karelia might cause a few problems with Russia, and Lappland with Sweden (who might also manage to find Kaleva offensive) and arguably Norway and Russia again as well. I don't think there's really a suitable Romanoff candidate, and once again if there were Russia would be likely to get upset by the choice. But really in the sadly unlikely event of Finland electing a king or regnant queen for itself then whoever was chosen would be validated by the mere fact of the election. To have some historical connection with Finland would be nice, but is no more required than it was for Marshal Bernadotte in Sweden.
Tolgron

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olligarchy
As for Finland Tolgron... I am fully aware of the history of this country, but I do feel that 800 some years have given us a very particular outlook that is very similar to some of the monarchist countries in Europe.


I do apologise; I did not mean to presume to tell you about your own nation's history. [tongue] It was just something I found interesting regarding Finland and its relation to monarchism. Regardless, I hope you're successful in creating a monarchist voice for the Finns, and hopefully even in your ambitions of a Finnish monarchy. It's a long shot, but then nothing worth doing is ever easy.
Olligarchy

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@Peter: I agree that my view on the Bernadottes is taken so far to the extremes that it is practically twisting the truth, but I believe my point remains valid in that they don't have any "claim" on the Finnish throne due to having risen to the throne nine years after the Finnish War in which the Kingdom of Sweden lost the Grand Principality to the Russian Empire. In addition the fact that even in the 1918's the Finnish government decided to go with a German candidate rather than a Swedish one speaks measures. Realpolitik aside, I don't believe the option was even considered, so why should it be today? However I do agree that if the option were to arise, I would at least give the Bernadottes the chance to prove themselves to be worthy of the throne. [smile]

As for the roll list... I tend to use the one made up by Gustaf Arikallio, though in the event of an actual monarchy it would probably have to be revised as you said. Long title lists are of the past as proven by the King of Sweden who did away with all his other titles.

@Tolgron: It's alright! Sorry if I came off a little snappish, it was not intended. I look forward to discussing our respective views and ideas in the future. [smile]
Peter

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Reply with quote  #10 
Having relinquished Finland by treaty, there could be no question of Sweden renewing a claim to it other than by conquest, not really an option at that date. As you say, Finland was lost to Russia before the future Carl XIV Johan arrived on the Swedish scene, and he never ruled or was even heir to it. But there isn't anyone with a claim as such, and the Bernadottes are effectively in the same position as all other dynasties, including the House of Hesse. I would point out though that if Prince Carl Philip were to be elected, due to the marriage made by Gustaf V he is after his father lineal heir (stage 1: stage 2) to the Holstein-Gottorp Kings of Sweden, including Gustaf IV Adolf, the last to rule Finland. I'm not arguing for a Bernadotte candidate, just pointing out that if you wanted to make a case you could.

It is true that traditional grand rolls of titles, half or more of them anachronistic and meaningless, are not in favour these days. I personally regret this, and thought the proposed Finnish full title was one to savour. If it had been adopted at the time then by now it would be established and no one would worry about it, any more than they do about the King of Spain's full title laying claim to half the globe that he does not rule. Introduced now the Finnish title would definitely arouse concern.
VivatReginaScottorum

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Reply with quote  #11 
Sorry I'm a bit late to the welcome party, but welcome to the forum! It's always nice to meet new monarchists. I'm not overly familiar with Finnish history, I'm afraid, but I have been there once. I was very young, but I remember the trip warmly.
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