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Posts: 7,547
Reply with quote  #1 

There was music in the cafés at night
and revolution in the air

Thus Bob Dylan, in 1974’s masterly Tangled Up In Blue. I doubt it was France in 1789 that Dylan had in mind, and I don’t know whether there was music in the cafés of Versailles at night, or even if there were any cafés (it’s possible, Paris had had them since the previous century). What is not in doubt is that revolution was indeed looming over France like a thundercloud. When the storm broke, it was blood that flooded the gutters and filled the sewers, heads that hailed down. In scenes of barbarous cruelty scarcely paralleled even in Europe’s violent history to that date, uncounted thousands died, tens of thousands more fled, and then war exploded all over Europe as the revolutionaries sought to impose their new order on other nations.

Under the revolution the ancient order of society was ripped up and remade, and then remade again, and again. Irreplaceable cultural treasures were destroyed, graves violated, to the extent that there is hardly a pre-revolutionary king of France whose grave is known, and eventually the whole order of Europe was changed. Although after long years of war Napoléon, whose authoritarian rule had brought the revolutionary era to a close and whose selfish ambition then wracked Europe for a decade and more, was utterly defeated and the Bourbon monarchy restored, too much damage had been done, too much had been lost, for things ever to go back the way they were.

The French Revolution which began with the convocation of the Estates-General at Versailles was not only one of the most significant events in French history, but also in that of Europe and the world. That it should be regarded as something to celebrate, however, never ceases to amaze. If I were French, le quatorze juillet would be a day to stay inside, curtains drawn lest I catch sight of a passing parade, and remember all the lives cruelly cut short in the Terror and the years of war that followed.

Among those lives were those of the King, Louis XVI, who though I don’t condone his judicial murder has to be considered as bearing some responsibility for the financial collapse that led to the revolution and all its ills, and the Queen, who was as innocent as most of the revolutionaries’ victims were. The relationships of Louis XVI and the other sovereigns of the day are set out below in three charts with the usual split, followed by a table of combined statistics and a note on posterities.

There is inevitably a certain similarity between these charts and those for 1815, only 26 years after. Three of the sovereigns are the same, Ferdinando III/IV, George III and Maria I, and there are two sets of brothers between the charts, Louis XVI and Louis XVIII and Gustaf III and Karl XIII. With the exceptions of Alexander I, grandson of Catherine II, and Franz I, nephew of Joseph II, the other 1815 sovereigns are children of the 1789 set, not counting of course those of the four new kingdoms, the Netherlands, Bavaria, Saxony and Württemberg. But even one generation makes a difference when everyone is marrying royally, and preparing the later chart was by no means a matter of looking at the earlier one and adjusting the relationships appropriately.

A peculiarity of the charts is that the most senior monarch is Ferdinando III/IV, and the most junior his older brother Carlos IV. The explanation is that Ferdinando was a whole eight years old when his father abdicated the crowns of Sicily and Naples in his favour and sailed away to take up the rule of Spain, taking his brother Carlo plus an additional s with him, as (their eldest brother being mentally handicapped) Carlo/s was now Prince of Asturias. As far as I know, Ferdinando never saw either of them again. The treaties under which his father, then not expected to succeed to Spain, had been allowed to take the Sicilian and Neapolitan thrones had provided against the possibility by requiring that the Spanish and these Italian thrones should never again be united, so compelling this abandonment of young Ferdinando but explaining his early accession.

And now, to the charts. An explanation of how to read them can be found here.


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Reply with quote  #2 
I: Relationships between the Catholic sovereigns of Europe at the convening at Versailles of the Estates-General of France, 5th May 1789
Reigning monarchFerdinandoStanisław IIJoseph IIV A IIILouis XVIMaria ICarlos IV
Ferdinando III/IV of both Sicilies7c2r JSL2c1r LEI3c1r L13F
3c1r VAIS
1c A3P1c FVSB C3S
Stanisław II of Poland7c2r JSL7c1r JSL7c JSL6c3r PIW
6c3r PKZ
9c1r CID7c2r JSL
Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor2c1r LEI7c1r JSL2c PIO2c1r LEI2c LEI2c1r LEI
Vittorio Amadeo III of Sardinia3c1r L13F
3c1r VAIS
7c JSL2c PIO1c2r VAIIS3c1r L13F
3c1r VAIS
3c1r L13F
3c1r VAIS
Louis XVI of France1c A3P6c3r PIW
6c3r PKZ
2c1r LEI1c2r VAIIS2c1r LDV
2c1r LEI
1c A3P
Maria I of Portugal1c FVS9c1r CID2c LEI3c1r L13F
3c1r VAIS
2c1r LDV
2c1r LEI
1c FVS
Carlos IV of SpainB C3S7c2r JSL2c1r LEI3c1r L13F
3c1r VAIS
1c A3P1c FVS

Posts: 7,547
Reply with quote  #3 
August III of Poland (2)Carlos III of Spain (1)Christian I of Denmark and Norway (1)
Felipe V of Spain (2)John Stewart, 12th Earl of Lennox (4)Louis XIII of France (3)
Louis, Dauphin of Viennois (1)Leopold I, Holy Roman Emperor (5)Philippe I, Duke of Orléans (1)
Prince Iwan Wiśniowiecki (1)Prince Kuzma Zasławski (1)Vittorio Amadeo II of Sardinia (1)
Vittorio Amadeo I, Duke of Savoy (3)  
Most connections formed:LEI (5)JSL (4)L13F, VAIS (3)A3P, FVS (2)Others (1)

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Reply with quote  #4 
II: Relationships between the Protestant* sovereigns of Europe at the convening at Versailles of the Estates-General of France, 5th May 1789
Reigning monarchGeorge IIICatherine IIChristian VIIGustav IIIF W II
George III of Great Britain & Ireland2c1r JAZ1c GIIGB2c GIGB2c GIGB
Catherine II of Russia2c1r JAZ3c1r F3D
3c1r F3HG
1c PCH3c2r RAZ
Christian VII of Denmark & Norway1c GIIGB3c1r F3D
3c1r F3HG
Gustav III of Sweden2c GIGB1c PCH2c GIGB1c FWIP
Friedrich Wilhelm II of Prussia2c GIGB3c2r RAZ2c GIGB1c FWIP
*Plus one Orthodox     
Frederik III of Denmark and Norway (1)Friedrich III, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp (1)Friedrich Wilhelm I of Prussia (1)
George I of Great Britain (4)George II of Great Britain (1)Johann VI, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst (1)
Prince Christian August of Holstein-Gottorp (1)Rudolf, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst (1) 
Most connections formed:GIGB (4)Others (1)

Posts: 7,547
Reply with quote  #5 
III: Relationships of the Catholic with the Protestant* sovereigns of Europe at the convening at Versailles of the Estates-General of France, 5th May 1789
Reigning monarchGeorge III
of Great Britain
Catherine II
of Russia
Christian VII
of Denmark
Gustav III
of Sweden
F Wilhelm II
of Prussia
Ferdinando III/IV of both Sicilies4c GBL3c1r F3D4c F3D
4c GBL
3c1r F3D4c E3W
4c GBL
Stanisław II of Poland7c1r JSL7c3r CID7c1r JSL7c1r JSL7c1r JSL
Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor4c FVP
3c2r RAZ4c FVP
Vittorio Amadeo III of Sardinia4c1r JIE5c FIID4c1r JIE4c1r JIE4c MHC
Louis XVI of France4c GBL3c1r F3D4c F3D
4c GBL
3c1r F3D4c E3W
4c GBL
Maria I of Portugal4c1r JGIS4c1r JGIS5c JGIS
4c1r JGIS5c LVHD
Carlos IV of Spain4c GBL3c1r F3D4c F3D
4c GBL
4c GBL4c E3W
4c GBL
*Plus one Orthodox     
Christian I of Denmark and Norway (1)Eberhard III, Duke of Württemberg (3)Frederik III of Denmark and Norway (8)
Frederik II of Denmark and Norway (1)Friedrich V, Elector Palatine (3)Georg, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg (10)
Joachim Ernst I, Count of Oettingen-Oettingen (2)Johann Georg I, Elector of Saxony (4)James I/VI of England and Scotland (3)
John Stewart, 12th Earl of Lennox (4)Ludwig Rudolf, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1)Ludwig V, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt (2)
Moritz, Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel (1)Rudolf, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst (1) 
Most connections formed:GBL (10)F3D (8)JGIS, JSL (4)E3W, FVP, JIE (3)JEIO, LVHD (2)Others (1)

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Reply with quote  #6 
Combined statistics 1789
GBLGeorg, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg10--10RAZRudolf, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst2-11
F3DFrederik III of Denmark and Norway  9-1  8C3SCarlos III of Spain11--
JSLJohn Stewart, 12th Earl of Lennox  84-  4F3HGFriedrich III, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp1-1-
LEILeopold I, Holy Roman Emperor  55--FIIDFrederik II of Denmark and Norway1--1
GIGBGeorge I of Great Britain  4-4-FWIPFriedrich Wilhelm I of Prussia1-1-
JGISJohann Georg I, Elector of Saxony  4--  4GIIGBGeorge II of Great Britain1-1-
E3WEberhard III, Duke of Württemberg  3--  3JAZJohann VI, Prince of Anhalt-Zerbst1-1-
FVPFriedrich V, Elector Palatine  3--  3LDVLouis, Dauphin of Viennois11--
JIEJames I/VI of England and Scotland  3--  3LRBWLudwig Rudolf, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel1--1
L13FLouis XIII of France  33--MHCMoritz, Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel1--1
VAISVittorio Amadeo I, Duke of Savoy  33--PCHPrince Christian August of Holstein-Gottorp1-1-
A3PAugust III of Poland  22--PIOPhilippe I, Duke of Orléans11--
CIDChristian I of Denmark and Norway  21-  1PIWPrince Iwan Wiśniowiecki11--
FVSFelipe V of Spain  22--PKZPrince Kuzma Zasławski11--
JEIOJoachim Ernst I, Count of Oettingen-Oettingen  2--  2VAIISVittorio Amadeo II of Sardinia11--
LVHDLudwig V, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt  2--  2      

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Reply with quote  #7 

A note on posterities

Of these twelve sovereigns, Stanisław II had a posterity through his illegitimate issue but it now appears to be extinct. Joseph II’s only child, his daughter Maria Theresa, died before her eighth birthday. As discussed in the 1815 thread, Christian VII’s only posterity is through the illegitimate issue of his son Frederik VI. Louis XVI’s only child to live to adulthood was herself childless. The remaining eight sovereigns all have a substantial posterity and, unsurprisingly as this was the case in 1815, all current sovereigns are descended from at least one of them, and conversely each of them has at least one current sovereign as a descendant. The now customary table demonstrates these facts:

2013 sovereigns: descents from 1789 sovereigns with legitimate posterities
SovereignFerdinandoGeorge IIICatherine IIGustav IIIV Amadeo IIIMaria IF Wilhelm IICarlos IVTotal
Henrix   xxxx5
Margrethe II xxx  x 4
C XVI G xxx  x 4
Philippex    xxx4
Juan Carlos Ixx     x3
Hans-Adam IIx    x x3
Harald V x    x 2
W-A  x   x 2
Elizabeth II x      1

As can be seen, the best score is again held by Grand Duke Henri, with his mix of Protestant royal blood with a wider range of Catholic royal descents than his cousin King Philippe. The only current heirs who will improve on their predecessors’ count are the Prince of Wales, who adds Catherine II and Friedrich Wilhelm II, and the Prince of Asturias, ditto. And outside the ranks of current sovereigns and heirs? Unlike with 1815, I can think of at least one group of people with the complete set: the children and grandchildren of Princess Birgitta of Sweden, sister of King Carl Gustaf. She married Prince Johann-Georg of Hohenzollern, a descendant of all four Catholic sovereigns, as she is of the three Protestants and one Orthodox.

I will close with a further table, appearing in the next post due to forum size limits. It shows descents of current sovereigns (once again excepting the Prince of Monaco, though I will mention that Albert II is descended from two of the ancestors shown, JGIS and E3W) from the top ten ancestors (excluding JSL due to his remoteness) of the 1789 sovereigns. At this remove, you get an interesting result. The Protestant sovereigns today descend from all the Protestant ancestors and none of the Catholic. The Catholic sovereigns descend from all of both, with the one exception of the Prince of Liechtenstein, who is not a descendant of George I of Great Britain. His grandson and eventual heir Prince Joseph Wenzel however remedies this lack, and the pattern will then be perfect.


Posts: 7,547
Reply with quote  #8 
           2013 sovereigns: descents from 1789 ancestors with three or more connections
E II GBxx xxxxx    7
M II Dxx xxxxx    7
C XVI G Sxx xxxxx    7
J C I Spxxxxxxxxxx10
H-A II Lixxx xxxxxx  9
H V Noxx xxxxx    7
H LUxxxxxxxxxx10
P Bxxxxxxxxxx10
W-A Nexx xxxxx    7

What made this table too large to go in the previous post was my linking the codes at the top to the individual's Wikipedia articles. I could have taken the links out, but it must be more convenient for people to hover their mouse or trackpad pointer over a code if they can't remember who it stands for than to schlep back to the keys and look.

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Reply with quote  #9 

Frederik VI had a sister, Louise Augusta, do you think Christian VII was not the father ?


Posts: 462
Reply with quote  #10 
Thank you, Peter, for this interesting and informative series of royal genealogical charts.

The descent of King Stanislaw II Poniatowski of Poland from an illegitimate daughter of King James IV of Scotland was interesting. I went to the website to trace this descent. It appears that King Stanislaw II actually has a descent from two of King James IV's illegitimate daughters, Lady Margaret Stewart and Lady Katherine Stewart. Margaret's mother was Margaret Drummond, and Katherine's mother was Margaret Boyd.

Here's the descent from Lady Margaret:

Lady Margaret Stewart, mother of:
George Gordon, 4th Earl of Huntly, father of:
George Gordon, 5th Earl of Huntly, married Lady Anne Hamilton, parents of:
George Gordon, 1st Marquess of Huntly

Here's the descent from Lady Katherine:

Lady Katherine Stewart, mother of:
Lady Margaret Douglas, mother of:
Lady Anne Hamilton who married George Gordon, 5th Earl of Huntly, parents of:
George Gordon, 1st Marquess of Huntly

Here's the descent from George Gordon 1st Marquess of Huntly, which combines the line of both of James IV's daughters:

George Gordon, 1st Marquess of Huntly, father of:
George Gordon, 2nd Marquess of Huntly, father of:
Lady Catherine Gordon, mother of:
Countess Izabela Morsztynowna, mother of:
Prinzessin Konstancja Czartoryska, mother of:
King Stanislaw II Poniatowski of Poland

Dis Aliter Visum "Beware of martyrs and those who would die for their beliefs; for they frequently make many others die with them, often before them, sometimes instead of them."

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Reply with quote  #11 

Thanks, Windemere. I can't remember whether I ever noticed the two descents or not, but of course because they are at the same remove the additional descent makes no difference. (Added 17/3/14: it makes even less difference now, as for all but two of the sovereigns I have found slightly nearer connections to Stanisław II than the originally shown ones through James IV's illegitimate daughter; all, as it happens, legitimate in every link.)

It was generally believed that she was not Christian VII's daughter, and she received no consideration in succession discussions, though given the rank of a Princess of Denmark and Norway. Her mother's affair with Struensee was in full swing by the time of Louise Auguste's conception, and the Princess was thought to bear a striking resemblance to her mother's lover, a suggestion which portraits tend to support:

Louise Auguste

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Reply with quote  #12 

Anyone wishing to reply further to this topic is invited to do so in the discussion thread at the top of the page. This thread has been locked, for reasons explained there.

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