Peter
Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2,413
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Reply with quote | #61 |
Don't hurry back for my sake. Briefly, your point would be fair if there had been a coup. There hadn't, a coup had been averted. |
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Ponocrates
Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 299
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Reply with quote | #62 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
When a court makes a ruling that a governmental practice is unlawful it is then incumbent upon the government to change that practice, it does not make instances in which it has been practiced retroactively null.
In the US, the president is sworn to uphold the constitution. I imagine it's similar in Hondurus. If the US president decided that he was going to hold an illegal referendum to overcome constitutional restrictions on his term limits then obviously the Supreme Court can determine whether this is unconstitutional. The Congress could also conduct an investigation to determine whether it's unconstitutional or in violation of the laws (they are a co-equal branch of the government). If the president's actions are unconstitutional then his practice - in this case, the illegal referendum - is null and void in the present and retroactively.
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
And there is a difference between specifically delineated court authority when dealing with criminal cases to issue warrants for arrest to constitutional judgements ending in their calling upon the military.
The president is usually the commander-in-chief of the military, but if he is acting to subvert the constitution, then the military's loyalty must be to the constitution, not the man who happens to occupy the presidency. The president is not above the laws. Honduras is going to hold elections soon for a new president, and Zelaya cannot constitutionally run for it despite his best efforts. Remember, he caused the constitutional crisis and lost.
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Ponocrates
Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 299
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Reply with quote | #63 |
By the way, many issues are brought to the attention of the Supreme Court about whether the government is acting constitutionally in a particular case. This is usually hashed out by lawyers and doesn't change the balance of power between the branches. In the Honduran case, Zelaya was trying to extend his personal rule over the country for an indefinite duration - he wanted a simple majority of the people to make that decision. In that case, Zelaya became dangerous and couldn't be trusted.
President Bush was disliked by many and some thought his administration used wire-tapping and interrogation methods that were unconstitutional. Yet, very few thought he wasn't going to end his presidency in January 2009. If he attempted to change his term limit simply by a majority vote in a referendum, we probably would have had a civil war. |
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BaronVonServers
Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 8,790
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Reply with quote | #64 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
Who else has a say? All neighboring countries for a start.
In a 'de facto' sense perhaps.
Otherwise, not at all.
The 'say' of a neighbouring state is limited to actions on its own soil.
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
If a coup is thrown in France you can bet Germany would
have a say.
Not lawfully, nor of right.
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
You can take as much space as you like, but it then makes little sense to recommend less noise be made by one who took less.
But Peter isn't making 'noise' he is making sense.
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
I have no need to come up with any new arguments as I have already stated my view.
Well, then, you've had your say.
Why blather on?
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
As you continue to repeat the same counters so will I. I have no objection or displeasure at all with your dismissing or ignoring anything I write I merely pointed out that if you did find it tiresome your current course of action would make little sense. But do go ahead regardless, do as you please as I was simply responding to your complaint. I don't find it tiresome. I do not see any particular benefit in printing a comment that is both new and sensible hence I shall not, and surprising you is not something I am terribly concerned with. I think that about covers all bases and I must be going.
Tootles.
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"In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas"
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Pachacutec
Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 111
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Reply with quote | #65 |
Hurry...me? You've got to be joking.
Ponocrates I agree with a number of points particularly about the validity of the referendum (had one been held) without subsequent changes being accepted by the legislature (which it never would have been), and also that there is no way now that Zelaya can expect to be allowed a second shot at office.
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Pachacutec
Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 111
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Reply with quote | #66 |
Quote: Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
Who else has a say? All neighboring countries for a start.
In a 'de facto' sense perhaps.
Otherwise, not at all.
The 'say' of a neighbouring state is limited to actions on its own soil.
Since when? Some colonialist you are.
Quote: Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
If a coup is thrown in France you can bet Germany would
have a say.
Not lawfully, nor of right.
By which argument lawfully and of right Prussia and Austria had no business in France following the Revolution.
Quote: Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachacutec
You can take as much space as you like, but it then makes little sense to recommend less noise be made by one who took less.
But Peter isn't making 'noise' he is making sense.
A matter of personal stance and as such meaningless.
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec I have no need to come up with any new arguments as I have already stated my view.
Well, then, you've had your say. Why blather on?
Because you still are and I still feel like responding. I'll get bored or called away eventually but as of yet there is little reason to stop.
Likewise. |
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BaronVonServers
Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 8,790
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Reply with quote | #67 |
Quote: Originally Posted by PachacutecQuote: Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
Who else has a say? All neighboring countries for a start.
In a 'de facto' sense perhaps. Otherwise, not at all. The 'say' of a neighbouring state is limited to actions on its own soil. Since when? Some colonialist you are.
I'm not sure what you're getting at....
Colonies are the domain of the parent country.
If by that you mean, that I'm not very 'American' in that attitude, well, so??
Quote: Originally Posted by PachacutecQuote: Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
If a coup is thrown in France you can bet Germany would
have a say. Not lawfully, nor of right. By which argument lawfully and of right Prussia and Austria had no business in France following the Revolution.
During, if asked by the Monarchists.
After, no business at all.
Quote: Originally Posted by PachacutecQuote: Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachacutec
You can take as much space as you like, but it then makes little sense to recommend less noise be made by one who took less.
But Peter isn't making 'noise' he is making sense. A matter of personal stance and as such meaningless. Only so to others. My opinion actually does matter to me.  Quote: Originally Posted by PachacutecQuote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec I have no need to come up with any new arguments as I have already stated my view. Well, then, you've had your say. Why blather on? Because you still are and I still feel like responding. I'll get bored or called away eventually but as of yet there is little reason to stop.
Ah,
For me this is fun, not just an escape from boredom.
Quote: Originally Posted by PachacutecLikewise.
Thanks!
__________________
"In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas"
I am NOT an authorized representative of my Government.
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Pachacutec
Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 111
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Reply with quote | #68 |
Oh no I wouldn't dream of questioning your American typicality for that I'd have said some colonial, and in any case your thought is of course thoroughly American, I was questioning your commitment to the ideals of imperialism. If it has an effect on neighbouring countries as these matters inevitably do they have every reason to take action to ensure their own strength and stability in the manner that they see fit. I didn't suggest that your comment was inherently without value as a result of demonstrating your opinions but on the meaninglessness of the statement itself. For me this is all but a way of preventing boredom whilst waiting for a more interesting topic to come up. As I have little interest in the legal implications of the matter under discussion it is ultimately just an argument for its own sake which whilst not without some value holds far less utility or entertainment than a debate of a more intriguing nature. Regardless as I have now been delighted to discover the release of an expansion to EUII I will as such be a little busy devoting all my uncommitted (and no doubt several committed) waking hours to guiding all included nations to achieve world domination for the umpteenth time and with modifications to 180 states and an exciting new 13th century campaign I may be away for a little while. For any other fans of the series For the Glory has become available for download on gamersgate alongside the rest of the Paradox series - including the fantastic Revolutions expansion to Victoria. At this rate I might not have missed much although knowing my luck several exciting debates will begin as soon as my back is turned. Oh well. Come on you wretched broadband! |
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BaronVonServers
Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 8,790
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Reply with quote | #69 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
Oh no I wouldn't dream of questioning your American typicality for that I'd have said some colonial, and in any case your thought is of course thoroughly American, I was questioning your commitment to the ideals of imperialism.
I have none.
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
If it has an effect on neighbouring countries as these matters inevitably do they have every reason to take action to ensure their own strength and stability in the manner that they see fit.
At home, sure.
Abroad, not so much.
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
I didn't suggest that your comment was inherently without value as a result of demonstrating your opinions but on the meaninglessness of the statement itself.
Are you then replying to a meaningless statement, rather than asking for clarification?
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
For me this is all but a way of preventing boredom whilst waiting for a more interesting topic to come up.
Studing History makes a good boredom deterent, and increases one's knowledge - though perhaps these discussion will be more enlightening.
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
As I have little interest in the legal implications of the matter under discussion it is ultimately just an argument for its own sake which whilst not without some value holds far less utility or entertainment than a debate of a more intriguing nature.
Anything but the French succession!
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
Regardless as I have now been delighted to discover the release of an expansion to EUII I will as such be a little busy devoting all my uncommitted (and no doubt several committed) waking hours to guiding all included nations to achieve world domination for the umpteenth time and with modifications to 180 states and an exciting new 13th century campaign I may be away for a little while.
Every man to his own fancy, I guess...
Quote: Originally Posted by Pachacutec
For any other fans of the series For the Glory has become available for download on gamersgate alongside the rest of the Paradox series - including the fantastic Revolutions expansion to Victoria. At this rate I might not have missed much although knowing my luck several exciting debates will begin as soon as my back is turned. Oh well. Come on you wretched broadband!
__________________
"In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas"
I am NOT an authorized representative of my Government.
Learn more about the Dominion of British West Florida at http://dbwf.net |
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