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Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #1 
This book might be worth reading this summer when I finally get time.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jKzgD4pKhNk/TOYMWR0EKWI/AAAAAAAACvc/Oe8eAmE7YIo/s320/Tories+book.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Tories-Fighting-Americas-First-Civil/dp/0061241806/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1303278367&sr=8-1

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The American Revolution was not simply a battle between independence-minded colonists and the oppressive British. As Thomas B. Allen reminds us, it was also a savage and often deeply personal civil war, in which conflicting visions of America pitted neighbor against neighbor and Patriot against Tory on the battlefield, the village green, and even in church.

In this outstanding and vital history, Allen tells the complete story of these other Americans, tracing their lives and experiences throughout the revolutionary period. New York City and Philadelphia were Tory strongholds through much of the war, and at times in the Carolinas and Georgia there were more trained and armed Tories than Redcoats. The Revolution also produced one of the greatest—and least known—migrations in Western history. More than 80,000 Tories left America, most of them relocating to Canada.

John Adams once said that he feared there would never be a good history of the American Revolution because so many documents had left the country with the Tories. Based on documents in archives from Nova Scotia to London, Tories adds a fresh perspective to our knowledge of the Revolution and sheds an important new light on the little-known figures whose lives were forever changed when they remained faithful to their mother country.



I'm proud to say that I have some ancestors who relocated to Canada at this time and who only returned to the US in the 20th century. 


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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #2 
Our family fought for God and King, but remained on the land after the war.  I'd like to read the book too....

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royalcello

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Reply with quote  #3 
I got this book from my father for Christmas and enjoyed reading it, though at times I would have liked more exploration of the ideologies behind the conflict.  It's very much a military history (not that there's anything wrong with that).   Here's a review:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/books/review/Waldstreicher-t.html

BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #4 
According to the review its not even a decent military history...
A 'military history' includes the (or the author's understanding anyway) 'why', and 'how' of victories and defeats, it does not simply recount the battlefield events.


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royalcello

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I liked the book more than the reviewer did, but he had a point.  I'd still recommend it for anyone interested in the subject.  There just aren't that many books on the Loyalists.  Maya Jasanoff's Liberty's Exiles is better, but as she focuses on the aftermath of the Revolution, basically picking up where Allen left off with only a slight overlap, the two books complement each other nicely.
Ponocrates

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I'm sorry to hear that the book was mostly a military history, because like you both, I would have been mostly interested in a book that discussed the ideas that motivated both sides.    Many educated people were the Loyalists in that fight.  You would have thought that they would have rivaled the "Founders" in literary output.

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jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #7 
I've found a book that is a more human story of the Loyalists and not a military history. It is:
 
The Loyalists, Revolution, Exile, Settlement by Christopher Moore, Toronto - McClelland & Stewart, 1994

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Originally Posted by Description

In 1783 and 1784, some fifty thousand Americans felt that they could not support the revolution against Britain. They were called Loyalists - and there would be no place for them in the new United States. As they streamed into the Canadian colonies to the north, they changed forever the face of settlement there. Their arrival would eventually lead to the formation of the provinces of New Brunswick and Ontario. First published in hardcover in 1984, the bicentenary of the migration,The Loyaliststells the very human story of these people - of the societies that shaped them, the attitudes that motivated them, and the circumstances that determined their future and influenced the future of Canada. It went on to win the Secretary of State's Prize for Excellence in Canadian Studies.


You might have to go to interlibrary loan, but it's worth the trouble.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
jovan66102

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Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello
I liked the book more than the reviewer did, but he had a point.  I'd still recommend it for anyone interested in the subject.  There just aren't that many books on the Loyalists.  Maya Jasanoff's Liberty's Exiles is better, but as she focuses on the aftermath of the Revolution, basically picking up where Allen left off with only a slight overlap, the two books complement each other nicely.

I am reading Jasanoff now and I agree it's an excellent work. Balances the mistaken view on the part of many Americans and most Canadians that all the Loyalists came to Canada.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #9 
I'm glad you enjoy the Jasonoff book, though I think it may be a bit generous to attribute any particular view, mistaken or otherwise, about the Loyalists to "many Americans" as I don't think many Americans think about the Loyalists at all!
jovan66102

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Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello
I'm glad you enjoy the Jasonoff book, though I think it may be a bit generous to attribute any particular view, mistaken or otherwise, about the Loyalists to "many Americans" as I don't think many Americans think about the Loyalists at all!


You're probably right about that,eh?

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #11 

No, many Americans are busy thinking about the Kardashian sisters and what Britney Spears or Linsdsey Lohan are up to....


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DavidV

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethiomonarchist

No, many Americans are busy thinking about the Kardashian sisters and what Britney Spears or Linsdsey Lohan are up to....



My disdain for modern popular "culture" is well known. And I'm so glad I'm not alone.

But to be on topic, here's this: http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch7s3.html

A proposal from Joseph Galloway for a British-American union. Galloway was a member of the First Continental Congress who became a Loyalist during the American Revolution. After then he moved to England where he spent the remainder of his life.
jovan66102

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidV

But to be on topic, here's this: http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch7s3.html

A proposal from Joseph Galloway for a British-American union. Galloway was a member of the First Continental Congress who became a Loyalist during the American Revolution. After then he moved to England where he spent the remainder of his life.

Jasonoff goes into some detail discussing the failed plans for 'Imperial Federation' that were advanced in an effort to avoid rebellion.


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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Sujit

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jovan66102
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidV

But to be on topic, here's this: http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch7s3.html

A proposal from Joseph Galloway for a British-American union. Galloway was a member of the First Continental Congress who became a Loyalist during the American Revolution. After then he moved to England where he spent the remainder of his life.

Jasonoff goes into some detail discussing the failed plans for 'Imperial Federation' that were advanced in an effort to avoid rebellion.


I for one like the idea of the Imperial Federation.

jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sujit
I for one like the idea of the Imperial Federation.



I wish it had been pursued seriously after the Statute of Westminster. Instead of the Commonwealth of Nations we could have the Federated British Empire!

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
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