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Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #16 
Perhaps, though the modern world is quite different to what has gone before. I still think it behooves us to try to create fertile ground for monarchism. Radical egalitarianism, contempt for tradition and continuity, and identity politics seem to me arid soil for monarchism to flourish (and one could include ever growing EU integration, if Brexit collaspes).

Aside from the continued popularity of the monarchy, the throne is aided by a lack of credibility for any alternatives.

Peter

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Reply with quote  #17 
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Originally Posted by royalcello
And James II & VII probably would have been tolerated had his second wife not had a son. A favourite counterfactual fantasy of mine, which I like to combine with Anne's son William (1689-1700) reaching adulthood: an smooth undisputed Anglican succession with no interregnum.
I have toyed with the latter element from time to time, never getting very far with it though. Not the former, as I can't imagine James being endured for a whole twelve years more. My POD then is simply the continued life and health of the young Duke of Gloucester, who on his mother's death would become William IV and III in my reckoning or William III and II in yours. No union with Scotland, note, that was mainly driven by the succession question, which would arise in neither scenario. Then in yours there never would have been such a thing as a Jacobite, and in mine their cause would expire in 1807, with a descendant and successor of William IV/III becoming genealogically senior.

Assuming other events would continue much as they actually did (which they would not), there could be an interesting little question arising in 1863, with the expiry of the main line of the House of Oldenburg. If there were a surviving male line from what would then have been Britain's first Oldenburg monarch, its head would become senior agnate of the House, with a very arguable claim to the succession in Denmark. Which could cause lots of complications in the not at all unlikely event that this person were the King here, and fewer but still some interesting ones if he were not.

Perhaps not, though, as Christian IX was himself far from being senior agnate, nor was his wife cognatic heiress. Still, it would have been hard to pass up male-line descendants of Frederik III for someone tracing their line only from his great-grandfather Christian III. Of course, for the possible problem to arise William whatever would need to get married, and I have never managed to come up with a satisfactory and credible spouse. I have a name for his son and heir, George from William's father, so there would still be a George I after Anne, just not immediately after. A name, but no mother. Any ideas?
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #18 
It must be remembered that there nothing inevitable in the fall of James II. He came to his throne with huge amount of popularity, considering the Exclusionist Crisis of less than a decade before. His brother, making use of a royalist reaction, had taken the government well into hand, and bequeathed to James a relatively loyal and deferential nation. Even well into his reign he had every opportunity to reform. And, in fact, it is hard to tell just what would have occurred had he decided to stay with his army on Salisbury Plain and resist William. It was his characteristic obstinacy and uncharacteristic loss of nerve that led to his overthrown. An interesting counterfactual would be what would have occurred had he been content at achieving modest relaxation of the penal codes against Catholics, as English Catholics and James' Catholic advisors suggested, and otherwise only have very slowly tried to make England more receptive to Catholicism.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #19 
Characteristic obstinacy, stupidity, which many anecdotes plus his known actions confirm as really rather remarkable, and untrustworthiness. I don't think losses of nerve were uncharacteristic of him either, as seen for example in the squalid degradation of his first attempted escape and his panicked flight after the Boyne, the latter leading to his Irish sobriquet Séamus an Chaca, which I will refrain from translating but it has something to do with a mess in the trousers.

It is though quite true that he came to the Throne with a fair wind behind him and would have reigned undisturbed had he merely kept his oath and visibly posed no threat to the established, Protestant order of things. And by so doing he would automatically have improved the position of his co-religionists; the penal laws against them were not often vigorously enforced anyway and never could be under a Catholic King, and with time gradual improvements to the legal position could have been made. But James was not the man to take advantage of such an opportunity, that would have needed patience and good judgement, neither of which qualities he possessed.

Another interesting counterfactual related to these events would be the survival and fruitful marriage of another Duke of Gloucester, James's younger brother Henry. A fervent Protestant, he surely would have played a part in events, with many seeing him as a far better candidate than James to succeed their brother Charles II. Dying aged just 20, Henry had been known as a sincere and virtuous youth of some ability and intellect, which would also have put him ahead of James in all respects.

However, aged only eight Henry along with his elder sister Elizabeth (not the one through whom the succession eventually passed, that was their aunt) had been brought to their father on the eve of his judicial murder and at the doomed King's urging had sworn an oath never to take the Throne in despite of his elder brothers. Young though he had been he would surely have recalled all this with complete clarity lifelong, and if he maintained the idealism of his youth would have been more likely to support than supplant James. Which is one way the latter could imaginably have reigned on to his natural death, though only if Henry's influence moderated his actions as well as buttressed his rule.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #20 
My understanding is that prior to coming to the throne James had shown bravery on numerous occasions, as far back as serving against the Fronde with Turenne and the Anglo-Dutch wars. He had also been relatively undaunted by the political dangers to him in the decade or so before coming to the throne.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #21 
That is my understanding too, and I have no idea what happened to change him. Something did, though, as his conduct after coming to the Throne and then after losing it was uniformly pusillanimous.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #22 
This has been circulating:
[image] 
Queenslander

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Reply with quote  #23 
That certainly tickled my funny bone [smile] "Being Independent" not so good now for sure.
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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #24 
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/letters/us-debacle-shows-the-danger-of-becoming-a-republic/news-story/c72420fae4b7e284599654d5b47703a6

Quote:
While we may be fascinated watching the train wreck that is earnestly referred to as the US presidential election, we should heed the serious lesson to be learned from this astonishing affair.

If 324 million Americans, spending billions of dollars on their election process, can’t come up with a better result than a couple of seriously flawed and unpopular candidates who seem to be capable only of dividing the nation, why would we ever contemplate taking the risk of going down a similar path?

The notion of having an elected Australian president sounds fine and democratic until you sit down and try to work out a sensible way for getting a president elected that doesn’t end like this US fiasco. This lends weight to the argument for retaining a constitutional monarchy in Australia — it may not be perfect but it’s better than anything else around.

Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #25 
Image result for emperor trumpImage result for queen hillary
Emperor Trumpatine           Queen Hillary

Your choice!

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #26 
I always seem to be the contrarian when this question comes up! As much as I love the Queen, to whom I have sworn allegiance as Queen of Canada, I would be absolutely opposed to her becoming Monarch of the entire United States. There are vast swaths of them which were never ruled by a British King. Give Hawaii back to its native dynasty, Alaska to Maria Vladimirovna, Grand Duchess of Russia, to rule as Empress, the Louisiana Territory back to whichever French King is decided on, and the former Spanish territory to either Count Maximilian von Götzen-Iturbide or King Felipe, and Her Majesty can rule the old British territory east of the Mississippi.
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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #27 
Apparently the "Nostradamus of the Balkans", Baba Vanga, who told King Boris II of Bulgaria the date he would die and the fact that a red flag would fly over his palace, and who many believe predicted the attacks of 9/11 and the 2004 Tsunami, has predicted that we are in the last days of the Presidential Republic here.  She is said to have foretold that the 44th President of the United States would be a black man, and that he would be the last President of the United States.  [eek]

She also predicted that there would be an Islamic invasion of Europe in 2016 which would culminate in the re-establishment of the Caliphate in 2043, but this time it would have Rome as it's capital.[eek]

Maybe we should start to panic now!  So if Obama is the last President...what institution will replace the Presidency?[confused]

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.2251/blind-prophet-s-chilling-predictions-for-2016-and-beyond.html

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
bator

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Reply with quote  #28 
i suppose you mean boris iii not ii. but otherwise quite scary if it means that destruction is the reason for him being the last president
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #29 
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/opinion/sunday/consider-a-monarchy-america.html

And the New York Times, no less.
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