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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #61 
We are not talking about what sort of monarchy we want, we are talking about the fact that some people are trying to push a pro-fascist, Far Right agenda that does not sit comfortably with the vast majority of people who consider themselves monarchists. Certainly the overwhelming majority of fellow monarchists I know and have actually met.

The enemies of our civilisation are the Far Left and Islamists, those pushing postcolonialism, identity politics and "social justice" causes, all of which are hostile to the dominant Anglo-Saxon people and culture of the English-speaking world. You cannot address this with the slippery slope of glorifying fascist tyranny which is no different from Communist or Islamist tyranny.

We know that the evils of Communism, for one, are insufficiently recognised compared to fascism and Nazism. I've endlessly made that point in public. But it doesn't justify people trying to whitewash fascism and rewrite history to suit their own twisted agendas, which is precisely what MM has done.

There are many ways to fight the Culture Wars we are facing, but what has been presented is a very, very wrong way.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #62 
That's certainly one of the major discussions in this thread, and in that discussion I largely agree with you, but it doesn't exhaust what has been brought up.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #63 
I thought your first sentence was a little unnecessary, David. Do you really want to start up the wars again? The rest of the post I entirely agreed with. There are as you say many different views within monarchism, most of which are entirely acceptable however they diverge from each other. Some though are not, and this thread has exemplified one of these.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #64 

I uphold freedom of expression and diversity of opinion because I am not a hypocrite. Freedom of association and dissociation are another matter because it means that self-policing becomes necessary for political and social movements and organisations.

If you want to see what actual, active monarchists stand for here's an example from the AML in Australia:
https://monarchist.org.au/about-us/107-why-do-we-do-it

And ANRM in Romania (requires translator):
https://tineretanrm.wordpress.com/despre/de-ce-sustin-tinerii/

Notice that these are people who get out there in the real world and have little in common with some of the crap that has been pushed in the name of monarchism online. I can provide other examples but you get the point. No serious active monarchist individual or group I know of indulges in authoritarian Far Right fantasies or promotes political or religious extremism which we reject, and is precisely the reason for our defence of the institution of the Crown.

Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #65 
Just to repeat, I'm very glad for what MM has contributed to the monarchist cause.   Also I think reactionary monarchists at Social Matter, Thermidor, and Jacobite have written some excellent and stimulating articles on the subject.   Since someone keeps stirring the pot, I wasn't going to leave him with the last word.  
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"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France

Personal Motto: "Deō regī patriaeque fidelis."
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #66 

I think we can all agree that what the AML do is good, important, and necessary. That doesn't necessarily mean that monarchists are obliged to avoid any discussions that would be beyond the purview of the Australian Monarchist League.

I wonder...is there any actual evidence that MM's writing, including in areas where I disagree with him, has ever hurt the monarchist cause (such as it is) in any way? Does anyone in Romania ever say, "restore the Monarchy? but that blogger in America defended Codreanu!!"? I seriously doubt it. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I have read of people being converted to monarchism, or strengthened in preexisting monarchist sympathies, via his blog. In recent years he's taken some positions I wished he hadn't taken, particularly regarding Ethiopia. But that doesn't mean his blog hasn't been on the whole a good thing.

Queenslander

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Reply with quote  #67 
I'll keep this short as usual. I'll miss him as an on line presence; and as a start point for my own research into the individuals and topics that he was want to discuss.
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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello

I think we can all agree that what the AML do is good, important, and necessary. That doesn't necessarily mean that monarchists are obliged to avoid any discussions that would be beyond the purview of the Australian Monarchist League.



The fact is that we have to be picky with our battles and who our allies are, and as we've seen recently with the fiasco surrounding Jeremy Corbyn, if one lies down with dogs then they get up with fleas. Yes, we can discuss a wide range of topics, but how exactly will they be relevant to advancing our cause? That's the question that's never been answered here when it comes to defending existing monarchies or restoring fallen ones. How will an appeal to some authoritarian far right ideology help one bit? It won't. There's no evidence that it can or will ever help. But then again, the problem is that there's too much of an appeal to emotion rather than reason over this. Ironically, on this forum it has long been agreed that promotion of such ideologies was not a good thing - and I tend to hold that outside the forum too.

Our battles are not just about defending the Crown in this country, or restoring monarchies elsewhere, it's also about defending civilisation from its multiple foes. We can ill-afford bad publicity in this regard.

Quote:
I wonder...is there any actual evidence that MM's writing, including in areas where I disagree with him, has ever hurt the monarchist cause (such as it is) in any way? Does anyone in Romania ever say, "restore the Monarchy? but that blogger in America defended Codreanu!!"? I seriously doubt it. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I have read of people being converted to monarchism, or strengthened in preexisting monarchist sympathies, via his blog. In recent years he's taken some positions I wished he hadn't taken, particularly regarding Ethiopia. But that doesn't mean his blog hasn't been on the whole a good thing.


Admittedly, MM's positive or negative impact on monarchism, online or not, would ultimately be rather limited in the wider scheme of things. Yes I enjoyed a lot of his writings in years gone by, but he simply became more prickly and gone off the deep end in the last couple of years with the whole veneration of Mussolini and Codreanu. The problem is that people who may not be so clued up may Google about monarchism and find some of that stuff a turn off.

Jacobite_Royalist_45

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Reply with quote  #69 
I find the departure of the Mad Monarchist from monarchist activity as a big loss within monarchical support on the internet, despite this we must mobilize to promote monarchy and provide our own insights and efforts. It does seems that we do not do nearly enough as we should be doing and yet, the world seems to pass us by. Creating organisations movements, and bringing ourselves into the public discourse will help, whilst converting individuals to the ideals of Monarchy.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #70 
I'm not sure about big loss. I deeply lament the fact he went the way he did, but I am truly appalled by what he ultimately became and even more appalled by some people attempting to defend him. I fail to see how our cause is helped in any way by his inane and increasingly cartoonish promotion of fascist ideas. What does it have to do with promoting monarchism?

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that promoting and defending fascism and similar ideas is plain wrong? It's as wrong as promoting Communist and Islamist ideas. There is nothing to be gained for our side by being drawn to such an idea or trying to rewrite a sordid period of human and especially Western history which did such terrible damage to all. A failure to recognise this amounts to moral cowardice. I am not, btw, in the business of defaming people - I call things out as they are.
Jacobite_Royalist_45

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Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidV
I'm not sure about big lost. I deeply lament the fact he went the way he did, but I am truly appalled by what he ultimately became and even more appalled by some people attempting to defend him. I fail to see how our cause is helped in any way by his inane and increasingly cartoonish promotion of fascist ideas. What does it have to do with promoting monarchism?


Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that promoting and defending fascism and similar ideas is plain wrong? It's as wrong as promoting Communist and Islamist ideas. There is nothing to be gained for our side by being drawn to such an idea or trying to rewrite a sordid period of human and especially Western history which did such terrible damage to all. A failure to recognise this amounts to moral cowardice. I am not, btw, in the business of defaming people - I call things out as they are.


Well, i do believe that you negate the fact that MM was single handedly reaching out to politically-minded individuals or those intrigued by our ideals on the internet with his well researched blogs dedicated to several royal houses and the sheer content dispersed. To this day, that blog post shall act as an archive for the future monarchist, traditionalist or conservative. We must remember two things in regards to the current situation. Before MM there was no real Monarchist presence in defence of our beliefs or simply the ramblings and discussions of restoration, regularly discussed on a blog. Furthermore, in regards to the perceived reaction to MM's acceptance of fascist ideals and doctrine, the contemporary monarchist is fighting everyday, through politics, in the work-place, in prayers, in his life and in his spirit. We long for something which at its core, is traditional. As you know all to well, certain forces in the contemporary age wish to do away with it, and so our ideals are attacked at the very core. I do certainly hope that monarchism does not ally itself to the doctrines of fascism, which has no real understanding of the depths of corruption and understanding of a government and arguably fails to understand human nature. We must understand that MM like many here, longs day in an day out for restoration. We should not be so harsh when the fellow reactionary becomes disillusioned or loses sight sometimes, but must seek to guide him back to the light from the very dark periphery he is mistakenly guided to.



DavidV

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Reply with quote  #72 
What do you mean no real monarchist presence? Active monarchists have been around for as long as monarchies have needed to be defended or restored. The IML dates back to the World War II era although its history has been uneven. The AML and ACM are active in Australia and I know people in the AML and have attended their meetings.
Jacobite_Royalist_45

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidV
What do you mean no real monarchist presence? Active monarchists have been around for as long as monarchies have needed to be defended or restored. The IML dates back to the World War II era although its history has been uneven. The AML and ACM are active in Australia and I know people in the AML and have attended their meetings.


I think you miss my point or I have failed to address it with clarity.There has been no real active presence on the internet and monarchist activity and interaction amongst younger individuals has seemed to be very low until the arrival of MM. I have much to learn about the activities of monarchist groups in Europe.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobite_Royalist_45


I think you miss my point or I have failed to address it with clarity.There has been no real active presence on the internet and monarchist activity and interaction amongst younger individuals has seemed to be very low until the arrival of MM. I have much to learn about the activities of monarchist groups in Europe.


I can show you evidence that there are a lot of young monarchists, a lot of young people who love our Royal Family. I know several personally, having met them at AML meetings. And I will also let you know that our moderator Theodore (royalcello) has run his website continuously (with remarkably little visual change) for about 18 years - and while I've often had disagreements with him, you can't deny he's been around and knows it as well.
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