Monarchy Forum
Register Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 6 of 45     «   Prev   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   Next   »
Wessexman

Registered:
Posts: 1,026
Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello
Remainers on social media aren't just saying that they disagree with the result. They're saying that Leave voters are stupid racists motivated by xenophobia and fear. They're saying that they're ashamed to be British. Remainers in London are saying that London should secede from England.


These sorts of people always say some variation of this about their political opponents.

I found this particular response interesting because most of the remainers in question are ignorant of the nature and history of the EU and Britain's relationship to it. All they know, at best, is some basic and one-sided economic information.

You should ask them to explain to you the Monnet Method or what is the difference between a free trade zone, the common market, and the single market.
DutchMonarchist

Registered:
Posts: 821
Reply with quote  #77 
I agree with Peter that its silly venting on social media. Some of these people may just have lost a lot of money and be pissed about it. I agree that they are sore losers, though.

My original point was that what some people say online (on twitter out of all places) was used by DavidV to argue that 'the remain camp' has utter contempt for democracy. While if some violent nationalists or whatever post their view on Twitter, it's never seen as the view of 'the leave camp'. It's a double standard that I saw running through the whole thread. Anyway, I'll leave it at that, also because I don't feel like complaining too much after a lost victory. I wish Britain all the best of luck with the new future is has chosen, and will continue to support the EU closer to home.
Wessexman

Registered:
Posts: 1,026
Reply with quote  #78 
The problem with the Scots and democracy is that talk of democratic duty relies on a sense of being part of the same demos. If the Scots don't feel those bonds then they might not see the need to abide by this decision.
Ponocrates

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,453
Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
But the apparent inability of some Remain proponents in London to grasp the, I would have thought, fairly basic democratic principle of acceptance of outcomes (a difficulty they share with many Scots, it would seem) is as I say more silly than sinister.


You are probably right, but it's still infuriating.

__________________
"For every monarchy overthrown the sky becomes less brilliant, because it loses a star. A republic is ugliness set free." - Anatole France
DavidV

Registered:
Posts: 4,405
Reply with quote  #80 
What we see is proof of how closely tied the Irish Republicans, Scottish nationalists and a great part of the British Left are. It is part of the group strategy to undermine Britain and British nationhood from within. Separating the UK will be a gift to our enemies, as will separating Spain. Brexit is a crucial blow to our enemies. We cannot sleep on this one.
Peter

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #81 
Leaving aside the question of who is and is not 'our enemy', it is true I think that a good deal of Scottish nationalism is transferred Irish nationalism among the descendants of 19th-century immigrants from that country. And it is certainly true that a large part of what drives Scottish nationalism today is the urgent desire of the SNP leadership to be bigger fish in a smaller pond. The mention of Spain though is cogent, as it is among the reasons why another referendum on separation is unlikely.

These reasons begin with the last referendum being two years ago not two decades, which surely would be the minimum interval; continue with the Scots can hold all the referendums they like, but without legal sanction from Westminster they will be meaningless, and Westminster has no reason to grant that sanction; mount up with Scotland being no less dependent on English support than it was two years ago, which was the principal reason separation was defeated; and are capped by the admittance of a separated Scotland to the EU being far from certain.

Why take on what could only be another pensioner nation? And even more importantly, why give Catalan, Flemish etc. separatists an encouraging precedent? Spain, no friend to Britain normally, might well take its covetous eyes off Gibraltar for long enough to veto the Scottish application, and there are several other nations which also might vote against. As far as I know, accession of new members still requires unanimity, and the Scots would be taking a huge risk of being left with neither an English nor an EU teat to suck on.
Peter

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #82 

Speaking of Gibraltar, which voted overwhelmingly for Remain, it has taken the result with far more equanimity and, dare I say it, maturity than either Scottish or London remainers, as shown in an address to Gibraltar’s legislature by Chief Minister Fabian Picardo. I particularly enjoyed this feisty paragraph:

‘Despite the noises that are bound to be made by our neighbour, and some have already been made as soon as this morning, this government is confident in the support from the British Government that there will be no talks or even talks about talks – the double lock – against the express wishes of the people of Gibraltar. So let others make irrelevant noises about flying flags over our Rock if they want to waste their breath. Such ideas will never prosper. Gibraltar will never pay a Sovereignty price for access to a market. Gibraltar will never be Spanish in whole, in part or at all. So I ask all our citizens to ignore these noises.’

In other news, Labour appears to be entering meltdown, with Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn either resigning in protest at Corbyn’s total uselessness (his version) or being sacked for disloyalty (Corbyn’s). There are now reports that up to half the Shadow Cabinet is considering following Benn through the exit door. The delicious thing is, if Corbyn held a fresh leadership election to reaffirm his position, he very probably would win it despite having clearly lost (or rather, never had) the confidence of his parliamentary colleagues. That in turn would create the delicious prospect of the Labour Party, a blight on Britain over the near-century since it first entered government, breaking up altogether. Oh please, let it happen.

DavidV

Registered:
Posts: 4,405
Reply with quote  #83 
Spain has an interest in opposing Scottish separatism. It doesn't want separatism within its own borders to succeed.

Labour is paying the price for decades of anti-British policies and cultivating ethnic voting blocs and the attendant victim culture which, as Melanie Phillips would put it, has become lethally divisive.
DutchMonarchist

Registered:
Posts: 821
Reply with quote  #84 
I have a question to Peter or Royalcello concerning things I'm seeing on the Dutch news. The way it is brought here it says that the Scottish government has decided that there will be a referendum, through regional Scottish legislation if needed. Since you guys said there would be no other referendum without approval of Westminster, this puzzled me. Is the Scottish government simply proposing to do something illegal here?

Or is it that they could hold a referendum in Scotland if they want to, but it would simply be considered meaningless by the government in London? In the case a majority of the Scots would now turn out to want to be independent, could we end up with a situation like in Catalonia, with a regional government repeatedly claiming its people want to be independent and a national government trying to stop it from happening? 

I also wonder if it would not be a wise policy to promise Scotland compensation for the EU subsidies that it is going to lose. Even if Scotland has no formal right of independence it would be undesirable to have an increasing number of people in Scotland want independence, I think. Perhaps London cold take away the fear that they will be financially worse of because of the Brexit?
DavidV

Registered:
Posts: 4,405
Reply with quote  #85 
I don't think such a vote will be held for a long time if ever. All will hinge on the final fate of the EU. It will be a moot point if the EU collapses Soviet-style.
Wessexman

Registered:
Posts: 1,026
Reply with quote  #86 
I think that if the SNP could stage a vote that had a high turnout, was free of irregularities, and was won by the independence side, it would be very hard to stop Scotland eventually leaving the Union. Britain is different from Spain. In contemporary Britain it would be very hard to ignore the results of such a vote, especially if it was accompanied by civil disobedience and lack of cooperation with Westminster from the Scottish government.

I do find it interesting that financial support for the Scots is brought up. Aside from the point that half of EU money to our regions comes directly from British taxpayers and we pay more than our fair share towards the other half, it is a strange sort of nationalist who is so keen to be subsidised by others.
DavidV

Registered:
Posts: 4,405
Reply with quote  #87 
Well look at how many post-colonial states are reliant on foreign aid, often to allow their nasty regimes to get away with all kinds of crimes. The global system is badly broken!
Peter

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #88 
What you say in your second paragraph is the answer. Separation is not something the Scottish regional government has any power to decide on; only the government of the whole Union can do that. In response to your third, English people are already tired of subsidising Scotland and getting only hatred in return. I don't think a proposal to subsidise the Scots even more would be well received further south.

In case you see a report of it, and somewhat connected with the first point, a Labour MP has called on Parliament to simply overrule the referendum result. In theory, Parliament could in fact do this; the Queen in Parliament is the sole legislator, and is bound by nothing save its own collective will. In practice, to openly flout the collective will of the British people as clearly expressed in a legally authorised referendum is out of the question. Similarly, there have now been over 2.5 million online signatures on a petition calling for a second referendum. This actually does have a legal consequence, in that Parliament must now debate the petition. But it doesn't have to do anything else with it, and most certainly not implement its demands. And it won't.
DavidV

Registered:
Posts: 4,405
Reply with quote  #89 
In addition to Spain, the Republic of Ireland is unlikely to want a breakup of the Union given that it doesn't really want Northern Ireland (if it ever truly did) either. It doesn't want to accommodate an irreconcilable Unionist population and a destabilising Republican movement. Neither does anyone want a resumption of sectarian warfare that would accompany separation.

Enough with this divisiveness and tribalism. Enough with "concessions". We need more unity within Britain, and more cooperation with others, to stand up against the enemies of our civilisation.
Wessexman

Registered:
Posts: 1,026
Reply with quote  #90 
Some reports have suggested only 25% or less of those who signed the petition for a new referendum are British citizens.

I am slightly worried that the remainers will try to get around this vote. The response has been slightly more vociferous than I expected. I don't think they will succeed, but I am a little wary.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.