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jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidV
It's "Bože spasi kralja Aleksandar II!" (God Save King Alexander II).
 


Thank you, David. I'm at my wife's, my laptop is at home, and hers died on Tuesday. I've been operating on a tablet or my phone until her new one arrived, and it's difficult to post from them!

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
I did. It wasn't incidentally really necessary to quote my whole lengthy post, just a relevant bit would have done. The article is as usual not too easy to follow in machine translation, but seems to be mainly talking about male-line descendants of an elder half-brother of Miloš Obrenović I, first Serbian ruler of the line. The reference to descendants of George Obrenović is just an aside, with no evidence provided for them. The Obrenović family the article mainly concerns itself with are not dynasts as they are agnatically of a different line, springing from the first husband of the mother of Miloš Obrenović I, while he and his brother Jevrem were sons of her second husband.


The descendants of Jakov Obrenovic (now days surnames Jakovljevic) do assert a claim to the Obrenovic legacy, link below. I was discussing their claim on another forum a while ago and I don’t dismiss it completely.

Visnja, the mother of Milos, always appears to be listed as the progenitor of the dynasty in genealogies so descent from Milos father could be irrelevant particularly as the name Obrenovic is due to her first marriage which Jakov was born of.  Jakov’s full brother Milan was a notable Voivode in the First Serbian Uprising hence why Milos and his brothers took the Obrenovic name. Although Jakov and his brother were Visnja's senior male descendants it’s not always the senior line that ruled in Serbia, up until 1920 King Peter was not the senior male line descendant of Karageorge.

The constitution of 1901 says that the succession passes to firstly the male descendants of King Alexander, secondly should he not leave any male descendants the succession will pass to the collateral line, and thirdly if there are no male descendants of the House of Obrenovic the succession will pass to the female line. The only collateral male Obrenovic line in 1901 was the Jakovljevic. There is undoubtedly a legitimate heir to the Obrenovic claim out there, either Jakovljevic or a female line descendant.

With the brutal regicide in 1903 it’s unsurprising that no legitimate claimant came forward. As far as I’m aware the Royal House formally only consisted of King Alexander, his wife Queen Draga and his mother Queen Natalie, apart from them there were two nieces of Milos alive in 1903, daughters of his brother Jovan but as far as I'm aware they were not regard as being princesses or members of the Royal House, they certianly don't appear in the Almanach de Gotha. Curiously when Queen Natalie died in 1941 she left an inheritance to the Jakovljevic.

I can imagine after such a long time the family meet and agree on a claimant as indicated in the below link they did in 2015 with Predrag Jakovljevic, who also met with Prince George Karageorgevich as noted elsewhere on the website. 

http://www.royalhouseofobrenovic.org/en/questions-and-answers/

http://www.royalhouseofobrenovic.org/en/jakovljevic/


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