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royalcello

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I had hoped she would make her 100th birthday on 13 November but it was not to be. I don't think I have to tell this forum how genealogically significant she was.


Born in Austria-Hungary when her aunt Zita was still its Empress, Infanta Alicia had been the oldest living member of any European royal family (possibly any). With her death there are no more royals born before the end of World War I; I believe the comparatively obscure Duchess Woizlawa of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Princess Reuss (b 17 December 1918) is now the oldest.

May she rest in peace. Condolences to the Bourbon family. [269c]

Peter

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Reply with quote  #2 
That is sad news indeed. Yes, the late Infanta Alicia was a kind of nexus of ancient hereditary claims, none of which she actually made of course. Most significantly, she was heir-general of the Bourbon kings of France and through them of the royal houses of Castile, Aragón and Navarre. She also held the representation of the Scottish House of Dunkeld and the English House of Wessex, and there were other claims besides. All these distinctions now pass to her grandson Pedro, Calabria claimant to the Two Sicilies.
Ethiomonarchist

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...or as I liked to call her, heiress to everything (Western European anyway).  RIP!
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jovan66102

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May flights of Angels lead her home and may she rest in peace. Memory Eternal!

But now, I'm curious. Peter or Theodore, I would love to see her descent from the House of Wessex!

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Peter

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I worked it out, which took me half an hour. It is formidably complicated though and would take far longer than that to set out properly. Right now I am headed for bed and I won't have much spare time tomorrow or for a few days, as I am in the throes of moving home. So I'll just give the bare bones now and maybe some time next week will write something fuller. The claim takes it that the representation of the House of Wessex comes through St Margaret, daughter of Edward the Exile, who was himself the son of Edmund Ironside, an elder half-brother of the Confessor. I think that is a reasonable position and she probably was heiress of line, though in no other sense.

She married Malcolm III of Scotland and their eldest son with a surviving legitimate posterity was David I of the same, his was Henry, Earl of Huntingdon, and his David, Earl of Huntingdon. His representation went through his daughter Margaret and hers Devorguilla to the latter's son John Balliol, who became King of Scots on account of being senior descendant of David I. There is no surviving descent from him or any brother of his, so the representation passed through his sister Ada. Her daughter Christian married Enguerrand V de Coucy, and the line passed through their son Guillaume to his son Enguerrand VI and his Enguerrand VII, who had no sons so the representation passed to his daughter Marie, comtesse de Soissons.

Her only son Robert had but one child, a daughter Jeanne, and her son Pierre several children but grandchildren through only one of these, his daughter Marie. Her eldest son was Charles de Bourbon, duc de Vendôme. His eldest son to survive infancy was Antoine, King Consort of Navarrre by marriage to its Queen Jeanne III and father of Henri IV of France. From there it is plain sailing and I could recite the line through which Infanta Alicia was representative of Henri IV from memory, I just wanted to get those difficult earlier stages down while they were fresh in mind and I had the relevant pages open. The links in each case are to the ancestry of the person in question, going back as far as the previous person linked.

PS Morning now, gruelling day of sorting and packing ahead. Before I get going on it I wanted to explain how come I first asserted the claim, then later on indicated I had only just worked it out. Basically I was taking the word of the Royal House of the Two Sicilies for it, the claim was made on their website. I had seen a genealogy with all the links once years ago, but it was something I stumbled across on some discussion group there was a link to, and I could never have either found it again or remembered how it went. So when challenged I had to start anew.
jkelleher

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Reply with quote  #6 
Thank you for this helpful "fleshing out" of Infanta Alicia's claim to descent from the House of Wessex.  It is worth pointing out that there is apparently some dispute as to the order and precise dates of birth of the daughters of Devorguilla of Galloway.  If Ada was not the eldest surviving daughter, it could potentially have been either of her sisters Cecily or Eleanor.

Fortunately, someone else has already done most of the work at filling in each of the 3 potentially "senior" lines of descent from Devorguilla:
http://my.raex.com/~obsidian/Britpret.html#Scotland
Peter

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Reply with quote  #7 
I must admit that I was unaware of the controversy. It inarguably exists, though, even if it doesn't actually matter very much with a claim to representation only, not any kind of inheritance. The claim should perhaps have come with a disclaimer that while the representation of one of three competing lines is undoubted, which of the lines is actually senior is a question unlikely ever to be resolved. It might have been if at a much more contemporary date the representative of one of the sisters had put up a challenge to Bruce's right to Scotland, but that would have been patently unrealistic and did not happen.

I recall that there is a question of this kind with one of the two claims to the Kingdom of Jerusalem (one of the two with any kind of reasonable basis, that is). No one knows which was the elder of the two daughters of Amadeus the Happy of Savoy through whom his descent survives, leading to both the Lignes, who also hold the other, undivided claim, and the Guinnesses being able to make an arguable pretence to the (extremely) long defunct realm. Anyway, thanks for the info and the link, saved for further exploration, and good to hear from you again.
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #8 
Thank you both, Peter and Mr Kelleher!
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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
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