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Reply with quote  #76 

Oh the frustration! Life is so hard when everyone has lost their mind but me!

luft9989

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Reply with quote  #77 

Isn't it interesting that when you think about it, time is all cycles.  Beginning times, monarchy rises, but then falls as democracies take the lead knowing now that all governments, like lives and the lives of Kings eventually have an end.

BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #78 
The Longest Lasting Monarchy I know of is the Roman Empire, from Augustus in the 30's BC to the end of the Eastern (Byzantine) Empire in the late 1400 (Trezboid outlasted Constantinople). - Say 1,500 years. 

How long did the most enduring Republic last?

How Long did the most enduring Democracy last?


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pauljluk

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Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVonServers
The Longest Lasting Monarchy I know of is the Roman Empire, from Augustus in the 30's BC to the end of the Eastern (Byzantine) Empire in the late 1400 (Trezboid outlasted Constantinople). - Say 1,500 years. 

How long did the most enduring Republic last?

1,705 years. and still going - the Most Serene Republic of San Marino

Quote:
How Long did the most enduring Democracy last?

That's a bit like going back to the 4th century AD and asking "How long did the most enduring Christian church last?" Only 300 years? It's doomed! Come back and ask the question when and if modern democracies have ceased to exist.
BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #80 

I'd not thought about little San Marino.  Thanks!  Perhaps small republics can survive - if they are small enough for the people to actually know and be known by their representatives.  In other words, just as democracy has (or had in the past) a maximum size, beyond which the system breaks down under the numbers, so do republics, and San Marino is within the limits. 

I'm willing to grant you that a Democracy can function effectively, and over the long term with a population < 5,000 (Just on a hunch, I've seen no evidence) , and based on San Marino, a Republic with a population < 50,000.

As for 'Modern Democracies' - they don't exist, well none bigger than a township in New Hampshire anyway, and unlike Christianity, the Ancients knew of Democracy, some even tried it.  The question remains, how long did the longest survivor last?

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kephapaulos

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Reply with quote  #81 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljluk
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVonServers
The Longest Lasting Monarchy I know of is the Roman Empire, from Augustus in the 30's BC to the end of the Eastern (Byzantine) Empire in the late 1400 (Trezboid outlasted Constantinople). - Say 1,500 years. 

How long did the most enduring Republic last?

1,705 years. and still going - the Most Serene Republic of San Marino

Quote:
How Long did the most enduring Democracy last?

That's a bit like going back to the 4th century AD and asking "How long did the most enduring Christian church last?" Only 300 years? It's doomed! Come back and ask the question when and if modern democracies have ceased to exist.

How did San Marino though escape from the Italian unification, or Risorgimento, of the mid-1800s? I think that question did come to mind in me once at least.


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kephapaulos

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Reply with quote  #82 

Also, would not San Marino have come under the protection of monarchies anyway? I mean it has been a small nation, and so it must have some kind of great dependence on maybe at least one or two surrounding European nations.


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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #83 
The more I look into San Marino, the more I question the 301 date of founding, 

Why is it 'according to tradition'? 
Shouldn't a continuing republic have its original records somewhere? or at least something more definite than 'tradition' for its claims?

How did it survive the Goths, the Lombards, the Eastern Empire's reconquest of Italy, the 'Holy Roman Empire', etc, etc, etc.

The Law Library of Congress gives a date of 8 October 1600 for its constitution.  That date is more verifiable, and still leave San Marino as the Oldest Republic, by far.  400 years, double that of the 'American Republic' (with rounding).  But still much less than the 1500 years of Roman Monarchy.




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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #84 
Oops, forgot the Law Library of Conress Link:  http://www.loc.gov/law/guide/sanmarino.html

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longliveroyalty

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Reply with quote  #85 

As an American I can tell you that there will never be a monarchy here.  It is sad indeed as our current President rules unchallenged in autocratic rule not experienced since Catherine the Great or Louis XIV.  Sadly American's are very very uninformed and have the least sophisticated intelligence.  We are taught to mistrust and hate monarchies from the earliest years up.  As far as breaking into independent countries, this is impossible.  Our states don't have their own armies, our militiary is centralized and Federal and so there would be no force to defend a Cessetion.  If you remember your history, many of the Southern States tried this once in 1861 and then formed together into a Confederacy.  It was a bloody civil war which America has not forgotten and we will not be repeating it anytime soon.  The only concern Americans have is purley economic and has little to do with ideas of independent sovereinty.  Even I have to say the only way I would support a monarchy here is it were to reign over a united country, not a divided one.


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Reply with quote  #86 
America a Monarchy?  Hmm.  Well, I believe a Viceroyship would be a start towards that.

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WhiteCockade

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Reply with quote  #87 
 I am currently writing a brief defense of George III and was wondering if anyone had any points which they believe should be raised? If I get done I would be willing to post it here. I am not asking for you to do my homework, only that you raise point which I maybe ignorant of or which may have slipped by me.
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BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #88 
I don't know which points you already have, but here are three of my 'reason why HMG3 was a 'Good Guy'.

1)  HM George III was very much committed to his Coronation Oath, but outside of England he was open to freedom of religion (or at least full tolerance). 

(The Quebec Act, which granted the former French Catholics their civil rights (as well as the enabling for the colonies of Florida obtained from the Spanish) was widely hated in the 'middle 13'.)

2)  HM George III attempted to reverse the downward trend in the Crown's influence in government.

3) HM George III was the first 'Native English Speaker' of the Hanoverians.


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royalcello

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Reply with quote  #89 
As I wrote via Yahoo, see John Attarian's Hurrah for King George!
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #90 
Also see these two reviews of Jeremy Black's George III: America's Last King, which while not uncritical, apparently presents a more nuanced view than Americans are accustomed to and sounds like it might be worth buying:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/01/14/bobla06.xml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/02/11/bobla04.xml

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