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royalcello

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary

I believe that God weeps at the division that man and man alone has forced into His Body



That's precisely why Catholics "weep" at the Protestant "Reformation."  Because Christians--at least in the West--were united before Martin Luther, John Calvin, Henry VIII et al. divided them.


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Reply with quote  #47 

A Pope's faulty decisions and awful policies were the reason for the split. I think it's awful really how one bad apple ruins the bunch. 

 

It's sadly only taken recent for proper dialog about reunification to begin.

I wish this had taken place years ago. Sadly it has not and alot of people are confused about what is the 'right' way.
Nothing can be done to sway anyone's opinion here in this matter so I humbly suggest this area of conversation end.

Gary

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Reply with quote  #48 
Agreed - as a new member I joined to discuss the world's monarchies and to learn from the wisdom of others. But I cannot and will not deny my faith as others should not do.

So...a question: who was the wisest king or queen so far in history?

I would have to vote for Solomon hands down...


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Reply with quote  #49 

Oh Solomon naturally. After him I'd say Henry II. He was a clever fellow.

Louis XIV was another crafty guy.

For queens I'd go with Elizabeth I.

WhiteCockade

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Reply with quote  #50 

Theodore (Royalcello) has basically said it all.  I do in fact pray for the conversion of Her Majesty.  I can understand why an Anglican would want to keep the British monarch Anglican and I can see why the Orthodox would want an Orthodox Tsar.  I understand why a “non-denominationalist” would think it really does not matter.  I can tolerate all these things because I know I am not on a Catholic board.  So please understand why we would want a Catholic monarchy.   I view non-Catholic religions as snares of the devil, and am about as anti-ecumenical as they come. Given that this is not a Catholic site I try to be tactful and respect members, though not necessarily their opinions as I have shown from time to time

 

 


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WhiteCockade

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Reply with quote  #51 

For Queens I am partial to Isabella the Catholic of Spain.  For kings I would have to think on that a bit, but St. Louis IX would have to be high on the list. 


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luft9989

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Reply with quote  #52 

This is my idea.  I believe only certain governments can work for certain countries.  I  don't really hope that the US will break down into monarchies because the democratic government we have works for us.  Taking away american's rights to vote would have the same effect as some one taking away the queen from england.  Right now russia is very unstable and i think that only the rule of a Tsar can turn that arounds.  Logic suggests they will soon restore the Tsar, think about it.  75 years of communist rule, barely 20 years of democracy but over a thousand years of Tsarist rule.  So it would make sense for them to regard a Tsarist government with safety and security.

 

 

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Essentially, if I understand you correctly, you are advocating the legitimist stance that a nation should have the form of government which corresponds with her traditions.  Setting aside the fact that the state of the government today does not reflect the intentions of the founders of the American republic, the problem is that democracy has not worked for the United States.  I agree that universal suffrage and anti-monarchism is ingrained into the American people however this is not a good thing.  If anything I would argue that the modern American democracy is the perfect argument against democracy. 


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WhiteCockade

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Reply with quote  #54 

Could some one recommend a balance biography of George III?


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Reply with quote  #55 
Sure! I've always found guelph4ever's bio on the subject pretty handy its at: http://www.geocities.com/royalistparty/monarch.html I hope this helps. Incidently I too agree that democracy is seriously flawed, which is why I support a little known catholic solution called corporatism In fact Theo has a link to Charles Coloumbe's homepage which has a very good asserion on the subject.
WhiteCockade

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Reply with quote  #56 

Corporatism is similar, is it not, to the guild system?


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WhiteCockade

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Reply with quote  #57 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnglishRoyalist
Sure! I've always found guelph4ever's bio on the subject pretty handy.

 

I found that very interesting.  As I posted in my yahoo group I have taken some heat for defending the loyalist position (especially among my fellow Catholics who can not see past George III's being a heretic, not that the fathers of the American republic were good Catholics mind you.)   I would like to be able to confirm or deny some of their claims (not that even if true they would change my mind). 


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luft9989

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCockade

Essentially, if I understand you correctly, you are advocating the legitimist stance that a nation should have the form of government which corresponds with her traditions.  Setting aside the fact that the state of the government today does not reflect the intentions of the founders of the American republic, the problem is that democracy has not worked for the United States.  I agree that universal suffrage and anti-monarchism is ingrained into the American people however this is not a good thing.  If anything I would argue that the modern American democracy is the perfect argument against democracy. 

 

  You are extremely correct in that the US democracy has far strayed from the foundation the founding fathers set down.  But on the whole, the US went from barely staying independent, to becoming the most powerful nation in the world in less that 200 years.  I'd say democracy works for them there.  I'm not however saying a government should correspond with the country's traditions.  It all has to do with the communal mindset of the people.  The Brits adore their royal family and the Queen's opinions and advice is still taken seriously in the parliament but the american people don't adore the First family like the brits do for their royals.  Having a monarchy would never go over well with americans and they wouldn't accept such a centralized government because that's just their beliefs.

WhiteCockade

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Reply with quote  #59 

So you favor the government that strikes a generations fancy? 

Self-rule is a myth.  I would argue that the centralization of the government is a product of modern democracy. 


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Reply with quote  #60 

Unfortunately the U.S. already has a far too centralized government. It has been getting steadily worse since the Constitution was introduced. I think the reason the U.S. has worked as well as it has is because it has roots in one of the best run monarchies in the world. I think it was John Adams who admitted that Great Britain had the best government in the world and it would have to be their model as being all they knew. Alexander Hamilton, himself a closet monarchist, pushed the present Constitution because it protected rights but had enough power in the executive and Senate etc to keep the "rabble" from ruling. The idea of checks & balances, shared power & all that came from Britain with a President that would be an elected ersatz-king. Of course much of those ideas the British inherited from Catholic Christendom, but that's another story.

It is too bad the U.S. has not been more faithful to its roots. Jefferson and Jackson increased Federal power, Lincoln stretched it beyond the breaking point and then FDR put us on the road to the massive "nanny state" we have now. Monarchies have not stayed the same either, and while I do agree that there has never been a totally democratic government in history, I also do not believe there has ever been a government totally without it. The public is always responsible for government to a degree, either through voting, apathy or simply being too wrapped up in their bread and circuses to care one way or another.

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