Monarchy Forum
Register Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 2 of 2      Prev   1   2
Elizabelo_II

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 428
Reply with quote  #16 
I had never heard any of this before. Very interesting.
DavidV

Registered:
Posts: 4,520
Reply with quote  #17 
Here appears to be proof that the Palaiologos line continues as the Paleologo-Oriundi in Italy:
http://www.marchesimonferrato.com/web2007/_resources/16.pdf
a_dernel

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #18 
Really interesting. Though it would be more helpful if there was an English version of that document.



__________________
A. Dernel
DavidV

Registered:
Posts: 4,520
Reply with quote  #19 
Here's a blog article dealing with the matter:
http://giorgioqp.blogspot.com.au/2015/05/roots-paternal-grandmother-ida-quintini.html
Peter

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 6,743
Reply with quote  #20 
It's an interesting article, thanks. Not knowing Italian I cannot really assess the authenticity of the claims, but I see no reason to disbelieve them. For anyone interested in not possible but verified living descendants of Byzantine Emperors, I cover the subject in my Blood Royal II thread in the Royal Genealogy section, commencing with post #44 on page three. Six dynasties are addressed, the last six of the 16 altogether that occupied the Imperial throne during the 1,123 years that the Eastern Empire lasted, since as far as I can see it is only from these (the Macedonians, sort of, the Doukids, the Angeloi, the Komnenoi, the Laskaris and the Palaiologoi) that documented as opposed to speculative descents are known. The descents are cognatic rather than agnatic, but that does not make them any less real and, to me anyway, interesting.
xtiaska

Registered:
Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
The Byzantine throne only really worked on genetic descent when the family in question was strong enough to keep hold of the Empire. One could have been made Emperor by acclamation of the army (like in its distant Roman past), by birth, proclaimed so by the Patriarch (with the military's support as well of course), or simply by just taking it (like Basil I did). They didn't have a system of inheritance. Generally the son of the Emperor would be elevated to Caesar (until that title was abolished) and then eventually Co-Emperor when he got old enough. If he was lucky and an ambitious general didn't seize power before he was old enough, then he became sole Emperor. So it is interesting to discuss the idea of heirs to the Palaiologoi, their current heir to head of the family would not have any solid claim to the Imperial throne.


Ottomans succeeded the throne, Andreas Palaiologos lived the rest of his life alongside Mehmet II while he was an heir of the throne, Mehmet could marry Demetrio's daughter while she was in his harem in order to seal a claim by law of succession instead he used his claim to the throne from John Komnenos Celebi, here the Wikipedia post:
John Tzelepes Komnenos (Greek: Ἰωάννης Κομνηνὸς Τζελέπης) was the son of thesebastokrator Isaac Komnenos.

Starting about 1130 John and his father, who was a brother of Emperor John II Komnenos("John the Beautiful"), plotted to overthrow his uncle the emperor.[1] They made various plans and alliances with the Danishmend leader and other Turks who held parts of Asia Minor. In 1138 John and his father had a reconciliation with the Emperor, and received a full pardon.[1]

In 1139 John accompanied the emperor on his campaign in Asia Minor. In 1140 at the siege of Neocaesarea he defected. As Norwich puts it, he did so by "embracing simultaneously the creed of Islam and the daughter of the Seljuk Sultan Mesud I."[1][2]

John Komnenos' by-name, Tzelepes, is believed to be a Greek rendering of the Turkish honorific Çelebi, a term indicating noble birth or "gentlemanly conduct."

The Ottoman Sultans, notably Mehmet II, claimed descent from John Komnenos.[1]

norenxaq

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 52
Reply with quote  #22 
descent specifically how?
xtiaska

Registered:
Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by norenxaq
descent specifically how?

The son of jonh Komnenos Celebi (Suleyman Shah) was the grandfather of Osman I,the founder of the ottomans!
vassallo

Registered:
Posts: 1
Reply with quote  #24 
I've seen on a few websites that the Vassallo lineage claims to be descendants of a Giacomo Paleologus, is this true? and if it is wouldn't it mean Vassallo are directly linked to paleologus?
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.