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House_of_Luxembourg

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Reply with quote  #16 
I'm still waiting for the canonisation of Henry VI of England, though I wouldn't hold my breath.
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(according to an account in the Cronica ecclesiae pragensis Benesii Krabice de Weitmile)

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Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #17 
The late Popes John XXIII and John Paul II are to be canonized on April 27, 2014.

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-unveil-sainthood-date-john-paul-ii-john-022413901.html

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Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
royalcello

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Reply with quote  #18 
This will be a tragedy for those traditional Catholics who are trying to maintain the increasingly untenable position of resisting Vatican II while recognizing its popes.  From a traditionalist perspective John Paul II was a disaster for the Church and his "canonization" would set a terrible example while being impossible to ignore. They are trying to canonize the Council that all but destroyed the once-mighty Roman Catholic Church and makes it impossible for sympathetic outsiders like me to take its claims seriously.
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalcello
This will be a tragedy for those traditional Catholics who are trying to maintain the increasingly untenable position of resisting Vatican II while recognizing its popes.  From a traditionalist perspective John Paul II was a disaster for the Church and his "canonization" would set a terrible example while being impossible to ignore. They are trying to canonize the Council that all but destroyed the once-mighty Roman Catholic Church and makes it impossible for sympathetic outsiders like me to take its claims seriously.


Thank you, RoyalCello! Pretty much my sentiments. To decide whether or not John Paul the Small is in heaven is way above my paygrade, but I'm intelligent enough to know that canonising him is a prudential mistake of the first water. He may very well be seen, through the lens of history, as the worst Pope in the history of the Church. An attempt is indeed being made in these two canonisations to 'canonise the Council', a Council I'm sure will eventually be consigned to the dustbin of history when the Church returns to sanity.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jovan66102


To decide whether or not John Paul the Small is in heaven is way above my paygrade, but I'm intelligent enough to know that canonising him is a prudential mistake of the first water. He may very well be seen, through the lens of history, as the worst Pope in the history of the Church.


Resurrecting this thread to apologise to the shade of John Paul the Small! Given the last four years, there is no way history will judge him the worst Pope in history. It seems now, that Humble Frank wants to do away with the process, instituted by Papa Emeritus Benedict, to crack down on clerical abusers.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #21 
It's rather perplexing why he would even think about something like this! [confused]


http://theweek.com/articles/670249/child-abuse-scandal-coming-pope-francis

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethiomonarchist
It's rather perplexing why he would even think about something like this! [confused]


http://theweek.com/articles/670249/child-abuse-scandal-coming-pope-francis


To quote him from the first weeks of his Reign, 'Who am I to judge'? The last time I checked, to use American terms, the Pope is the President. Congress, and Supreme Court all rolled into one. He is the Executive Head of the Church, the Supreme Legislator, and the Ultimate Court of Appeal in the Catholic Church. If he is not to judge, exactly who the hell is!?!?

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Peter

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Reply with quote  #23 
No one?
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #24 
And, in the Gospel according to St John, chapter 20, verse 23, this same God-Man said to the Apostolic College, of which Peter, the first Pope was the head, 'Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.' Sounds to me very much like Our Lord Jesus granted the power of judgment to the Apostles and their successors.

Thank God, there are still successors of the Apostles who take this charge seriously, unlike Humble Frank!

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #25 
It would be a rather strange interpretation of the Gospel and rest of the NT to say there is no judgement to be passed, not even on sins in the abstract. In Acts 5.1-11. the Spirit, through Peter, even kills Ananias and Sapphira.
Elizabelo_II

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Reply with quote  #26 
Well, some parts of the Bible are rather necessary to interpret.

I don't mind the new Pope's attempt at humbleness, I for one hope that we can finally move towards the Church doing something about making contraceptives non taboo, or doing away with celibacy.
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #27 
The Pope has no power to change those teachings, as they are age old teachings and have been upheld in ex cathedra pronouncements (and therefore infallibly according to Catholic doctrine) by his predecessors. If he tried he would be in open heresy. Besides, the teaching on contraceptives, until not long ago a universal Christian teaching, is partly based in natural law reasoning, which any change would have to grapple with (presumably in such a way it didn't bring the entire edifice of Catholic moral teaching crashing down).
jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
The Pope has no power to change those teachings, as they are age old teachings and have been upheld in ex cathedra pronouncements (and therefore infallibly according to Catholic doctrine) by his predecessors.


Celibacy is not an infallible teaching. It is a matter of discipline that the Pope could change tomorrow. In fact, the Eastern Rites, to which I belong, have always had a married, parochial clergy. The rule of celibacy only bound the Latin Rite, and even that has been relaxed with the ordination of married converts from Anglicanism and Lutheranism. The rule has always been that a married man can be ordained, but a man ordained to the Major Orders could not marry.

Having said that, however, I would be horrified if the Pope opened the Latin Rite to a general non-observance of clerical celibacy, even under those rules. Next, would be the demand for ordained Priests to be given the right to marry, followed by a demand for woman 'Priests'!

However, you are absolutely correct on the artificial birth control point. If Humble Frank, or any future Pope, tries to change that, the open, blatant, and egregious heresy would remove them from the Papal Office instanter!

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Wessexman

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Reply with quote  #29 
That makes sense.
TuiMangareva

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wessexman
The Pope has no power to change those teachings, as they are age old teachings and have been upheld in ex cathedra pronouncements (and therefore infallibly according to Catholic doctrine) by his predecessors. If he tried he would be in open heresy. Besides, the teaching on contraceptives, until not long ago a universal Christian teaching, is partly based in natural law reasoning, which any change would have to grapple with (presumably in such a way it didn't bring the entire edifice of Catholic moral teaching crashing down).


It is Pope Francis we are talking about, he seems to think he can do whatever he wants.
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