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infinitelord

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponocrates
Infinite Lord: Will the horseman of the Apocalypse confine himself to France? What constitutional authority will he base his rule? Will he actually ride a horse or will he use modern weapons and technologies.

Peter, thanks for the clarification. I didn't mean to propose something too far-fetched.

Well, there are different interpretations of what the first horseman actually means. Some take it to be a world war. Others associate it with a person.

In the Bible, white typically symbolizes the Holy Spirit or Peace. In this case, the first horseman is the "rider of the white horse". Private Revelations suggest that after the war the great monarch will bring peace to the world since he is the rider of the WHITE horse. I don't know if he will actually ride a white horse. He may very well do so, but the main point is symbolism, and the white horse symbolizes peace.

Other private revelations reveal that this great monarch figure will be frankish and will be the emperor of the entire ancient roman empire. France will be the first country that accepts him as king. Eventually the rest of Europe will submit to him. I can provide you with a scriptural argument if you want.
Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #17 
Just Europe? What about North Africa and the Middle East? Do you think the boundaries of the Ancient Roman Empire were chosen because the prophecy was made when there was still a Roman Empire? Does this mean that China and North and South America are off the hook?
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infinitelord

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponocrates
Just Europe? What about North Africa and the Middle East? Do you think the boundaries of the Ancient Roman Empire were chosen because the prophecy was made when there was still a Roman Empire? Does this mean that China and North and South America are off the hook?

the ancient roman empire included north africa and the western part of the middle east. i am not sure why this is. my next post will give you a bunch of information to ponder about...
infinitelord

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Reply with quote  #19 
Here is why I believe in the Great Catholic Monarch. Please feel free to disagree or voice any additional comments...

Christ references Daniel the Prophet in Matthew 24....


Matthew 24:15- “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel…”

Daniel the Prophet talks about the Abomination of Desolation here...

Daniel 11:31-"Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 11 was written sometime between the 7th and 6th centuries BC. It began to be fulfilled around 100 years later. It was completely fulfilled when Antiochus IV Epiphanes's reign ended in 164 BC. Please refer to the following source as proof...

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/2711.htm
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So why would Christ make reference, while speaking about the end times, to Daniel 11 when Daniel 11 had already been fulfilled? Because the Old Testament foreshadows the New Testament and the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament. With that being said, who do the kings of Daniel 11 foreshadow?

Answer:

1) Cambyses (Persia) foreshadows Reza Pahlavi I (Iran: Modern day Persia)
2) Bardiya (Persia) foreshadows Mohammad-Reza Pahlavi (Iran)
3) Darius I (Persia) foreshadows Reza Pahlavi II (Iran)
4) Xerxes I foreshadows a figure known as the Madhi of Islam (will stir up the Middle East against Europe)
5) Alexander the Great (defeated the Persians) foreshadows the Great Catholic Monarch (will defeat the Middle East)
6) Marriage between Antiochus II and Berenice. foreshadows (?)
7) Ptolemy III foreshadows (?)
8) Seleucus III and Antiochus III foreshadows (?)
9) Antiochus III vs. Ptolemy IV foreshadows (?)
10) Antiochus III vs. Ptolemy V foreshadows (?)
11)Roman General Lucius Cornelius 
Scipio defeats Antiochus III foreshadows (?)
12) Seleucus III takes power for a short time foreshadows (?)
13) Antiochus IV foreshadows the Antichrist

Its pretty clear that the Kings of Daniel 11 foreshadow Kings during the end times. I can't see it any other way. I find it very coincidental that the final king who fulfills Daniel 11 has "Anti" at the beginning of his name. As we all know the final king of the end times will be the ANTIchrist. Because of this relationship in names, I personally think that Alexander the GREAT would foreshadow the GREAT Catholic Monarch. I would say the odds are that this will hold true when it all goes down. I can't imagine anyone else fulfilling Alexander the Great.

The reason why I am suggesting that the Pahlavi dynasty of Iran fulfills the 3 persian kings of Daniel 11:2 is because these are the last 3 kings of the Iranian Monarchy. In 1980 the Iranian Monarchy was abolished. Plus there is nobody to succeed Reza Pahlavi II since there are no legitimate heirs since his children are all female. If anyone fulfills the 3 persian kings of Daniel 11:2 it has to be the Pahlavi Dynasty. There simply won't be any more Iranian/Persian kings after these 3 guys. 
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To finalize things, I will refer to just 1 private revelation. I tried to keep things scriptural as much as possible, but here it goes...

(Abbot Werdin d’Ortante, 13th century): “The Pope will go over the sea carrying the sign of redemption on his forehead, and after the victory of the Pope and the Great Monarch, peace will reign on earth.”

As many of you may know, there is a croatian Priest by the name of Father Zlatko Sudac who bears the sign of redemption (the cross) on His forehead...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... AA&dur=507

On May 7, 1999 he received the Stigmata as the sign of the cross on his forehead. I don't believe this has ever happened before. He also received the full stigmata which I think is extremely rare amongst Stigmata cases. I think it is coincidental that this is happening given that Daniel's kings are being fulfilled. He could very well be the Pope during the reign of the Great Catholic Monarch. If he is the one chosen by God to be Pope, then that must mean that the Great Catholic Monarch is alive today. Everything seems to be adding up. The prophecies seem have started being fulfilled. I think there is a chance that we are headed into the Tribulation (which begins with the reign of the Great Catholic Monarch).

Please let me hear your thoughts and questions.
Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #20 
The Pahlavis are far from becoming extinct as there are other male line Pahlavis who are in line to be successors to the dynasty's claim even though Reza Pahlavi has no sons.  Prince Ali Patrick Pahlavi is next in line after his cousin Reza http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Patrick_Pahlavi

I don't see anything in what you cite from Daniel, Christ or St. Matthew that indicates that this "Great Monarch" is indeed a King that would reign over what was formerly the Roman Empire.  I see nothing that would point to the Bourbons either or that he would be Catholic, and the parallels with the ancient Persian and Seleucid monarchs with the modern day Pahlavi's and the antichrist is a bit unconvincing.  With all the Pahlavi's mentioned, why wouldn't he be a Shia muslim reigning over all the lands formerly part of the Persian Empire, or perhaps a person from Greek Macedonia as the Seleucid's you mentioned, (or even the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia) and be a Greek Orthodox monarch?  This whole thing lacks any consistency. 

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infinitelord

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethiomonarchist
The Pahlavis are far from becoming extinct as there are other male line Pahlavis who are in line to be successors to the dynasty's claim even though Reza Pahlavi has no sons.  Prince Ali Patrick Pahlavi is next in line after his cousin Reza http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Patrick_Pahlavi

I don't see anything in what you cite from Daniel, Christ or St. Matthew that indicates that this "Great Monarch" is indeed a King that would reign over what was formerly the Roman Empire.  I see nothing that would point to the Bourbons either or that he would be Catholic, and the parallels with the ancient Persian and Seleucid monarchs with the modern day Pahlavi's and the antichrist is a bit unconvincing.  With all the Pahlavi's mentioned, why wouldn't he be a Shia muslim reigning over all the lands formerly part of the Persian Empire, or perhaps a person from Greek Macedonia as the Seleucid's you mentioned, (or even the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia) and be a Greek Orthodox monarch?  This whole thing lacks any consistency. 

These are some good questions. I use the Pahlavi's because they are the last 3 kings of Iran. There won't be any more Iranians who hold the title of king. Unless they decide to bring back the monarchy system. Which I think is highly unlikely. As for the Ancient Roman empire thing...

(St. Augustine, 5th Century):" A Frankish King will one day rule over the entire Roman Empire.”
"There will rise in Gaul a King of the Greeks, the Franks and the Romans." (Liber Mirabilis, 16th Century, quoting an old prophecy)
" ... by whom the ancient glory of the Empire shall be restored." "He shall be Emperor of Europe." (Aystinger)

There are other prophecies suggesting he will be Catholic...

David Poreaus (17th Century): "The Great Monarch will be of French descent, large forehead, large dark eyes, light brown wavy hair, and an eagle nose. He will crush the enemies of the Pope and will conquer the (Middle) East.”
(Abbot Werdin d’Ortante, 13th century): “The Pope will go over the sea carrying the sign of redemption on his forehead, and after the victory of the Pope and the Great Monarch, peace will reign on earth.”
"He will be a Catholic, a descendant of Louis IX, a descendant of an ancient imperial German family, born in exile." (Bartholomew Holzhauser, 17th century)
--------------------

I have yet to see anything legitimate that suggests the Great Monarch will be of Bourbon descent. If Nostradamus implies this then it would be rejected by the Catholic Church.
BaronVonServers

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Reply with quote  #22 
I'd be happy to join the fun...
But, really, I tend to take scripture entirely too seriously for this type of stuff to sit well.
And I've been known to be a bit stubborn.

Shall we let slip the fundie?

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jovan66102

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitelord

"He will be a Catholic, a descendant of Louis IX, a descendant of an ancient imperial German family, born in exile." (Bartholomew Holzhauser, 17th century)
--------------------

I have yet to see anything legitimate that suggests the Great Monarch will be of Bourbon descent. If Nostradamus implies this then it would be rejected by the Catholic Church.

If Holzhauser is correct and he is a descendant of St Louis, the odds are very, very good that he must be a Bourbon.

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'Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison.' C.S. Lewis God save Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, etc.! Vive le Très haut, très puissant et très excellent Prince, Louis XX, Par la grâce de Dieu, Roi de France et de Navarre, Roi Très-chrétien!
Peter

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Reply with quote  #24 
Louis IX lived a long time ago. Pretty much all royal houses (and many noble houses and just plain common families) are descended from him, also from ancient German imperial families. For example, every king of England from Edward III and of Scotland from James II was so descended. These are not demanding criteria. If you cut it down to agnatic descendants, though, then there are only Bourbons in their many branches, no one is agnatically descended and not a Bourbon.
infinitelord

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jovan66102
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitelord

"He will be a Catholic, a descendant of Louis IX, a descendant of an ancient imperial German family, born in exile." (Bartholomew Holzhauser, 17th century)
--------------------

I have yet to see anything legitimate that suggests the Great Monarch will be of Bourbon descent. If Nostradamus implies this then it would be rejected by the Catholic Church.

If Holzhauser is correct and he is a descendant of St Louis, the odds are very, very good that he must be a Bourbon.

He could be a Bourbon. But at the same time it is possible that He won't be.  Unless of course someone can point to some credible information that suggests He will be. Also, the biblical verses that foreshadow the Great Monarch actually point to more of a noble becoming the king as opposed to a royal. Anyways, Louis XI was from the Capetian dynasty which was way before the Bourbon Dynasty. 
Peter

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Reply with quote  #26 
Louis XI was from the Valois dynasty, which was a branch of the Capetians. But you meant to type Louis IX. He was what is known as a Direct Capetian, in a line of kings that went unbroken from father to son from Hugues I (Hugh Capet, whose sobriquet named the line) to Jean I, a period of over 300 years. The infant Jean was succeeded by his uncles Philippe V and Charles IV, who are also counted as Direct Capetians, then Charles IV was succeeded by his cousin Philippe VI, first of the line of Valois. His father was a younger son of Philippe III, son of Louis IX.

The Valois reigned in three branches, the line finally expiring with Henri III. His successor was his remote cousin (agnatically, 2nd cousin cognatically) Henri IV, first of the Bourbon line to reign. His remote forebear in male line was Robert, comte de Clermont, a younger son of Louis IX. Robert married the heiress of Bourbon, hence the name of the line. It continues in many branches tracing back to Henri IV; Bourbon-Spain, Bourbon-Sicily, Bourbon-Parma, Orleans and Orleans-Braganza. All these are both Bourbon and Capetian and spring ultimately from Louis IX.

There is yet one more Bourbon and a further Capetian line. The latter is that of the Dukes of Braganza in Portugal and springs ultimately from Robert II of France, long before Louis IX so forget them, although they are cognatic descendants many times over. The additional Bourbon line is that of Bourbon-Busset and is actually the most senior of all the surviving Capetian branches. They descend from Louis de Bourbon, Bishop of Liege, a younger son of Charles I, duc de Bourbon. It is unclear who the mother of the first of them was and it is possible that he was from a marriage prior to Louis' ordination. Unlikely, though, as the branch though much senior to the line of La Marche from which Henri IV came never asserted any claim to primacy. Anyway they are Bourbons, Capetians, derived from Louis IX and noble. However I doubt that the present comte de Busset would have even the slightest interest in being proclaimed Great Monarch.

Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #27 
I still don't see where it's necissarily a Bourbon.  If the prophesy is that this monarch will be a Catholic decendant of Louis IX, then it can certainly be almost any Catholic royal in Europe today, not just a Bourbon.  That he has to "rise in Gaul" does not mean he has to be born there right?  He could just rise to power there initially.



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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
infinitelord

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethiomonarchist
I still don't see where it's necissarily a Bourbon.  If the prophesy is that this monarch will be a Catholic decendant of Louis IX, then it can certainly be almost any Catholic royal in Europe today, not just a Bourbon.  That he has to "rise in Gaul" does not mean he has to be born there right?  He could just rise to power there initially.



Interestingly, the prophecies suggest the Great Monarch will be of Noblility as opposed to a royal.
Ponocrates

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Reply with quote  #29 
What's the evidence of him being noble?

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infinitelord

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponocrates
What's the evidence of him being noble?

Luke 19:12- “A certain man of nobility traveled to a far away region, to receive for himself a kingdom….”
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