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Ethiomonarchist

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Reply with quote  #46 
The E.U. has come down in support of Prime Minister Rajoy and Spanish unity, but are decidedly nervous how this could turn out.  Catalonia is not alone in its seccessionist ambitions.  The Basques might feel encouraged by all this, and the Flemish in Belgium, the Scots, and others elsewhere might be find this to be a catalyst.  40,000 people in Barcalona are protesting Spanish measures which include the arrest of regional government officials and police and troop numbers being beefed up.  The Catalan regional President however has defiantly said he will proceed with the illegal referendum on October 1.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1BW1OC

http://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/world/spain-in-crisis-over-catalan-independence-vote-government-suspended-troops-sent-in-and-40000-protest-in-barcelona/ar-AAshjvm?li=AA4RHr

https://www.yahoo.com/news/spanish-crackdown-undermined-catalan-independence-bid-regional-leader-191831121.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/boats-spanish-military-police-blocked-180919890.html

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The Lion of Judah hath prevailed.

Ethiopia stretches her hands unto God (Quote from Psalm 68 which served as the Imperial Motto of the Ethiopian Empire)

"God and history shall remember your judgment." (Quote from Emperor Haile Selassie I's speech to the League of Nations to plead for assistance against the Italian Invasion, 1936.)
VasilyBloksin17

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Reply with quote  #47 
I hope Putin helps the Catalonians.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #48 
Just like the Spanish Communist and republican volunteers went to Ukraine to help Putin's side?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/catalonias-unconstitutional-means-to-an-undesirable-end/news-story/74ad02d24b9d8a67e8651bbd8eee4a87?nk=71c46b018ce913512dcac7f2077fb3ed-1506124367

The problem is that a) separatists are highly motivated and can distort the outcome of a vote and b) in the right circumstances a highly ideological minority can take advantage and impose its will.
VasilyBloksin17

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Reply with quote  #49 
>The problem is that a) separatists are highly motivated and can distort the outcome of a vote and b) in the right circumstances a highly ideological minority can take advantage and impose its will.

So like the american election?[biggrin]
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #50 
Anti-separatist Scottish blogger Effie Deans on the issue:
http://effiedeans.blogspot.com.au/2017/09/encouraging-nationalism-involves-heavy.html
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #51 
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/catalonias-unconstitutional-means-to-an-undesirable-end/news-story/74ad02d24b9d8a67e8651bbd8eee4a87?nk=71c46b018ce913512dcac7f2077fb3ed-1506124367

The key point is that the Catalan referendum is unconstitutional and the Spanish government is doing its duty to uphold the constitution.

A royal speech is apparently in the offing:
http://www.periodistadigital.com/politica/parlamento/2017/09/29/el-discurso-que-prepara-el-rey-felipe-vi-como-hizo-su-padre-el-23-f.shtml
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #52 
Statement by Sixto Enrique:
https://carlismo.es/s-a-r-don-sixto-enrique-la-unidad-de-espana-debe-mantenerse-a-toda-costa/

Catalan nobility say no to independence:
https://www.vanitatis.elconfidencial.com/noticias/2017-09-30/nobles-independencia-referendum-cataluna_1451601/
DutchMonarchist

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Reply with quote  #53 
I'm happy to see nobles rejecting the creation of a Catalan republic! And you are absolutely right that the Spanish government is doing its duty here. I really hope things will end up well for the Kingdom of Spain.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #54 
https://elpais.com/ccaa/2017/10/01/madrid/1506855060_835889.amp.html

Cristina Cifuentes, the head of government of Madrid, says that separatists are not heroes but traitors.
Peter

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Reply with quote  #55 
Press coverage seems to have mainly focussed on the force used by the police, universally condemned, the clumsiness and anti-democratic behaviour of the Spanish government, and the 90% vote in favour of separation. A token mention is given to the fact that not much over 40% of registered voters took part; this, apparently, doesn't in any way invalidate the result. The Guardian waxes furious over the desecration of the sacred right to self-determination, while Bloomberg tries to appear more balanced, failing miserably.

Anyone who can read could see quite plainly that there is no way this vote could be legal under Spain's constitution; an often ambiguous document, but employing unaccustomed clarity in the relevant section. For the benefit of illiterates, Spain's Constitutional Court affirmed that yes, such a vote would be illegal. The separatists went ahead anyway, the police, obeying their orders as they ought, tried to enforce the law, and everywhere the lawbreakers are blessed and the police and Spain's lawfully elected, fully democratic government condemned.

Maybe they could have said 'You want to hold your little vote, go ahead. It will have zero legal force and you'd better not use public funds or property doing it, or you'll be prosecuted. Do it with your own money on your own property, and there's no reason we should interfere.' I would guess that they didn't do that because they accurately predicted that only those favouring separatism would bother to turn out, producing a massively skewed result that would then be happily exploited by separatist leaders. They probably accurately predicted too the knee-jerk condemnations that would come their way if they, gasp, tried to stop the law being broken, but thought it the lesser evil.

The Guardian article actually disappointed me. I know the paper has an image of taking a completely pinko view of everything, but I don't think that's generally the case. Certainly its basic stance is left-liberal, but I still find its coverage for the most part balanced, reasonable and well-written. Not this piece, though, which had me incensed.

One particular gem from it: 'But not unlike Scotland, a majority does appear to question the legitimacy of a distant central government that speaks a different language, hands down political diktats, levies unfair taxes and allegedly gives back less than it takes.' England and Scotland speak different languages? England levies unfair taxes on Scotland, which has a disproportionally high representation in the Parliament that must approve those taxes? Scotland, subsidized by English taxpayers, gets back less than it gives? A final question: what the heck are you on?

My sympathies are entirely with the Spanish government, pilloried for attempting to see that the law was obeyed, while the lawbreakers are hailed as heroes.
DavidV

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Reply with quote  #56 
The Catalan crisis is having an impact on football as well:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/barcelona-facing-huge-decision-on-its-football-future/news-story/1ed34efa45c948fd4107ff14a03473fd
Queenslander

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Reply with quote  #57 
Looks likely there will be a couple of very big fish in one of Europe's smallest football ponds after all this dust-up has settled.
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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #58 
Anyone who knows anything about football in Spain will tell you that football and politics can't be divorced. It's sort of similar in Scotland too.
Queenslander

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Reply with quote  #59 
Yes I kinda know, have a Scottish second or third cousin (I forget which number and so does he), who is  a Celtic fan (despite being a Protestant) and I have to tread around eggshells whenever I have the rare chance to speak with him directly. I have never had the courage to tell him that I support Edinburgh based teams, as I also have a soft spot for Madrid's fortunes in the Spanish leagues too.
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DavidV

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Reply with quote  #60 
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article176700421.html

For His Majesty King Felipe VI, this is his moment beyond any question. The media often suggests the situation of the Spanish monarchy is precarious, but Felipe has not disappointed here. Often even staunch monarchists wonder if contemporary European royalty are up to the task of dealing with an increasingly polarised world (and admittedly, fewer reservations about non-European royalty as they at least seem to understand it better). But the King of Spain has not failed anyone here: he delivered precisely the message we want to hear and the world need's to here. Viva El Rey, Viva EspaƱa!

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