Monarchy Forum
Sign up Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
Rosa

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 117
Reply with quote  #1 
Enlightment I term from about 1603-1790; that is from the death of the last Renaissence monarch Elizabeth I and when the change of power from Tudors to Stuarts, from Valois to Bourbon, from Ruric to Romanov, was becoming complete. I used to figure it's end to be the American Revolution but now I realize we were so isolationist that we didn't matter the French however did.

The Enlightment is noted for the increase in the role of non-aristocratic people. Artists, philosophers, composers, poets, doctors,etc. were begining to gain wealth and recognition beyond that of prior times. The rise of more secular pursuits I believe stems from the bloodshed and irrationality of the many religious wars during the Renaissence. I believe St.Bartholemew's Massacre led to Rousseu, Montisquei, Voltaire...
The Enlightment's key monarchial figures can basically be put into two categories: Absolutists and Enlightened Monarchs (now I know what despot means maybe I shouldn't use it).
Absolutist examples:King Louis XIV of France, Empress Elizabeth, Maria Theresa of Austria.
Elightened Examples: Frederick II of Prussia, Catherine II, Joseph II of Austria.
I know there must be more but these some of the ones historians have named Great ao therefore most books on them.

So now that I summarized things in a nutshell for the unknowing, can someone tell me what they dislike about it? I here alot of people telling me they liked the Middle Ages, but why were the Middle Ages better? If you begin to get into religion, I must warn you to tread causiously as I am a child of Superstition and a student of Reason.


__________________
If all the world is a stage,can I be Carmen?


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #2 

Are you a Monarchist though?

royalcello

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 6,808
Reply with quote  #3 
Given that the ideas of the "Enlightenment" helped pave the way for the French Revolution, it is not surprising that many monarchists take a dim view of it.

I don't think your classification of 18C rulers quite works.  Russia's Empress Elisabeth (1709-1762) and Austria's Empress Maria Theresa (1717-1780) were also somewhat influenced by the "Enlightenment."  Generally the "Enlightenment" refers to the era after Louis XIV (1638-1715), so he was really not a part of it either way, though Voltaire admired him.

The "Enlightened Despots" are traditionally considered to have been Frederick II of Prussia (1712-1786), Joseph of Portugal (1714-1777), Carlos III of Spain (1716-1788), Catherine II of Russia (1729-1796), Joseph II of the Holy Roman Empire (1741-1790), and Gustaf III of Sweden (1746-1792).

While the "Enlightenment" and Monarchies appeared to co-exist well for awhile, obviously this did not last long.  It was partly a case of "give them an inch and they'll take a mile."  People became impatient for yet more change, and secularization tended in the long run to undermine royal authority.

Many monarchists, especially Catholics, prefer the medieval model, in which royal authority was more decentralized and in harmony with the Church.   It certainly was a more stable and long-lived approach historically than that of the "enlightened despots."  Arguably the highly centralized powerful monarchies created in the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries were too brittle and artificial to survive for as long as the medieval monarchies had.

Personally I think that, within limits, different styles of monarchy are appropriate for different countries and different eras.  It is probably not realistic or helpful to wish that European monarchy and society had remained exactly as they were in the 13th century for all time.  I like Louis XIV, and don't see how a medieval prince could have had the outstanding impact on the arts that he did.  But I think that the ancien regime might have survived in some form had it not been for Louis XVI's decision to aid the American revolutionaries, which bankrupted the French treasury and thus precipitated the crisis of 1789.  [See http://www.mises.org/story/1489 ]  And both the American Revolution and French sympathy for it were influenced by.....the "Enlightenment"!  So there we are.



campeadorshin

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 576
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
I used to figure it's end to be the American Revolution but now I realize we were so isolationist that we didn't matter the French however did.


On the contrary, Benjamin Franklin and his fellow Masons kept in contact with their French counterparts who would eventually bring about the French revolution.

Quote:
The Enlightment is noted for the increase in the role of non-aristocratic people. Artists, philosophers, composers, poets, doctors,etc. were begining to gain wealth and recognition beyond that of prior times.


Yes, and as a result of the Enlightenment, Capitalists and Communists have set up a "Servile State" around us, where these respected professions have been reduced to nothing but profiteers in most places.  A new aristocracy of money that (despite what you're led to believe) lets few into its circles.  Wealth: theoretically for all, practically for those capitalizing at the top of the pyramid.

Quote:
The rise of more secular pursuits I believe stems from the bloodshed and irrationality of the many religious wars during the Renaissence. I believe St.Bartholemew's Massacre led to Rousseu, Montisquei, Voltaire...


Irrationality, yes. (sarcasm)  The rational thing they should have done back then was to let Muslims overrun Europe and put us all under sharia law.  Good thing now that we're rational we've fought wars to destroy monarchies (Nappy's wars, American Revolution, French Revolution, World War One, Russian Communist Revolution, the various wars all over Latin America, all caused by Enlightenment ideas and philosophies) and commit genocide against those who resisted (the Vendee, the Cristeros, the slaughter of thousands during the Red Revolution and the millions after).  We're soooo rational now.

Quote:
Elightened Examples: Frederick II of Prussia, Catherine II, Joseph II of Austria.
I know there must be more but these some of the ones historians have named Great ao therefore most books on them.


Frederick II was a Freemason, the promiscuous Catherine II imprisoned a young Emperor Ivan VI and had him killed and had her husband's murderers promoted instead of punished, Joseph II was very chummy with Freemasons (though its said he never joined) and their "religious liberty" ideas.

Freemasonry (and for the record their bosses the Bavarian Illuminati) arose from the Enlightenment and the many Atheistic ideals that would contribute not only to the French Revolution, but to the overall overthrow and weakened state of monarchies all over Europe.

The Middle Ages weren't better in EVERY aspect.  Christendom was, as they said, the Gospel permeating through every aspect of life.

__________________
Do I seem weird? This article should explain some of my views:
http://www.angelusonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=490&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Communism and Capitalism are evil!!! http://distributism.com/
royalcello

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 6,808
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by campeadorshin
the promiscuous Catherine II imprisoned a young Emperor Ivan VI and had him killed


Slight correction: Elisabeth imprisoned him; he was killed under Catherine.
campeadorshin

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 576
Reply with quote  #6 
Thank you.

__________________
Do I seem weird? This article should explain some of my views:
http://www.angelusonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=490&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Communism and Capitalism are evil!!! http://distributism.com/
Rosa

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 117
Reply with quote  #7 

Yes I am a Monarchist, but until recently I haven't found any aspect of it that I have been truly interested in. I love warriors and the arts so Frederick II jives with me...

If you are going to blame the Masons for everything, I am going to laugh because don't you realize you could easily replace the word Mason with 'Jew' or 'black' and that post sounds a bit like something you would find on Stormfront.

I love people!!! I was drawn into Communism at one point because I thought they truly were going to make the world a better place, but you don't have to go any further than Revleft (have had an account their on both servers they have used, and neither stay lasted long) to realize it will not work. I hate Capitalism, but realize that Communism will never work in practice.
I love Monarchies and certain aspects of monarchy but I also love People, and I am of the middle class and go to public school.
So that is why I love the Age of Enlightment and reform. The Hapsburgs are ok but they are too inbreed at times. I adore the Romanovs,English monarchy etc. but Prussia was this little state that conquered everyone. The underdog who won at Tredeun and began German nationalism.

__________________
If all the world is a stage,can I be Carmen?
Rosa

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 117
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by campeadorshin
...Communists have set up a "Servile State" around us, where these respected professions have been reduced to nothing but profiteers in most places.  A new aristocracy of money that (despite what you're led to believe) lets few into its circles.  Wealth: theoretically for all, practically for those capitalizing at the top of the pyramid.


I agree with everything you just said but you cannot contribute these things to Communism. Communism has never existed outside of theory and practice. If we were living in a true Communist state there would be no need for us to talk about bringing back Monarchies.

__________________
If all the world is a stage,can I be Carmen?


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #9 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosa
Yes I am a Monarchist, but until recently I haven't found any aspect of it that I have been truly interested in. I love warriors and the arts so Frederick II jives with me...If you are going to blame the Masons for everything, I a m going to laugh because don't you realize you could easily replace the word Mason with 'Jew' or 'black' and that post sounds a bit like something you would find on Stormfront.
Freemasonry takes a lot of its lore from the East.  The earlist Humanist, Giovanni Pico Mirandola was an orientalist (Meaning he studied the peoples, language, and cultures of the Middle East).  He knew Hebrew and read the Kabbala.  The Jewish Kabbala has influenced Freemasonry along with Zorastrianism.

Rosa, People have agendas.  These agendas are not a part of Western Culture or of Western Civilization.  Much of the people of the Enlightenment HATED HATED Christianity and the society they lived in.  They wanted to destroy Christianity and destroy their societies along with Monarchy.  They wanted a "Freer" lifestyle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosa
I was drawn into Communism at one point because I thought they truly were going to make the world a better place,....
Do you know what you just said Rosa?  How do you make the world a "better place"? 

Well, you destroy the OLD one first!!!!! That is the Enlightenment in a nutshell!  The Enlightenment IS about destroying the Old Order and replacing it with "a better place" or the New Order!!  which by the way is on the back of the US dollar bill.

Monarchy, Royalty, Aristocracy is all of the Old Order!  One can't be for the Old Order and look at the Enlightenment as a "good thing".  That is bogus.

Second, do you Rosa understand where "Making the world a better place" idea comes from??????

It comes from the Kabbala!  It is called Tikkun Olam!  It is about deconstructing the Old Order, the Temporal Order that God Created because humans don't like what God has done and now seek to change it according to human desires!!!  Communism and Socialism are all Jewish/Enlightenment constructs based on Tikkun Olam!  Where did the Enlightenement Europeans get the idea of "making the world a better place"?  from the Kabbala.

The World is NOT a going to be made "better"!  That is not Christian or natural.  You can't abrogate the Temporal order.

You have much to learn Rosa.  Life is War--Life is not about Peace!!!


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #10 
The word "Enlightenment" itself is an Eastern word and concept!!!  "Enlightenment" is what Buddhists do.  Christianity has revelation---not enlightenment.  The East is all about being "Enlightened".

The West is about Common Sense---Seeing reality as is!  there is NO greater thing.  Jesus came, calling us to salvation.  The world is committing suicide.  Jesus Christ is saving who is called to join him in another world.  The West is about living within and accepting the Temporal/Natural Order.  The West is the Old Order and Obedience to God!
Rosa

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 117
Reply with quote  #11 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHEELER
You have much to learn Rosa.  Life is War--Life is not about Peace!!!

This scares me. Are you trying to make me feel helpless?
Also, the whole Warfare thing doesn't do you much good as I've had enough of it's trivial in it's various forms.( Lord, Class Warfare concept is so complicated I cannot believe I got passed the first 20 pages of Marx!)

Please calm down. There must be balance.

What is so bad about being helpful to others? What is so bad about wanting to improve peoples' lives? If a majority of people want change and something to happen, they should get it. True, Trotsky said that more reforms only lead to more revolution but I believe this is a case where he is wrong.

__________________
If all the world is a stage,can I be Carmen?
Rosa

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 117
Reply with quote  #12 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHEELER
The West is the Old Order and Obedience to God!

What would be the Old Order? What God?


__________________
If all the world is a stage,can I be Carmen?
campeadorshin

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 576
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
If you are going to blame the Masons for everything, I am going to laugh because don't you realize you could easily replace the word Mason with 'Jew' or 'black' and that post sounds a bit like something you would find on Stormfront.


I blame them (among others) because they ADMIT to these actions, in some cases they even brag about what they accomplished.  Jews are a religion, Blacks are a race, Freemasonry is a secret society.  These words can't be mixed and matched.

There are plenty of elderly men in Mexico that took up arms when they were younger against the Masonic US backed Mexican Federal Government when a systematic genocide of Catholics started.  And I don't blame them for EVERYTHING, but they were one of the driving forces behind the destruction of Christendom.  To this day some occult activities can still be attributed to them.  One that I know of involves the murder of a Catholic priest sympathetic to the traditionalist cause.  He was killed Masonic style. (throat slit, disemboweled, etc.)

Quote:
I love people!!! I was drawn into Communism at one point because I thought they truly were going to make the world a better place, but you don't have to go any further than Revleft (have had an account their on both servers they have used, and neither stay lasted long) to realize it will not work. I hate Capitalism, but realize that Communism will never work in practice.


I also do not like either, which is why I reject the leftist pinko commies and the rightwing libertarians and Capitalists. 

I'm a Distributist and I'm glad I don't fit into the secular political rightwing leftwing spectrum.

Quote:
I love Monarchies and certain aspects of monarchy but I also love People, and I am of the middle class and go to public school.


I like Monarchy and people too.  I had to go to public school, but with all I've learned through the internet, looking back I see it was nothing but a propaganda factory.

__________________
Do I seem weird? This article should explain some of my views:
http://www.angelusonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=490&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Communism and Capitalism are evil!!! http://distributism.com/
campeadorshin

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 576
Reply with quote  #14 
Oh, she's an Atheist.  See I thought she was one of those "I can support the Enlightenment and be a Christian too" kinda people.

__________________
Do I seem weird? This article should explain some of my views:
http://www.angelusonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=490&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Communism and Capitalism are evil!!! http://distributism.com/
BaronVonServers

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 11,968
Reply with quote  #15 
Campy, Wheeler,

You don't have to destroy the world to make it a better place (though God did that once before, and He will do so again).  There is sometimes non revolutionary change that actually is for the better.  I like having a fork, knife, and spoon at my supper plate.


__________________
"In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas"

I am NOT an authorized representative of my Government.

Learn more about the Dominion of British West Florida at http://dbwf.net
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.